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Never Let Me Go Discussion Thread. - Page 2 - Artemis Fowl Confidential Fan Forum

Never Let Me Go Discussion Thread.

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Dim Aldebaran
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Re: Never Let Me Go Discussion Thread.

Postby Dim Aldebaran » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:45 pm

Yes... it was an amazing book, had me a bit red eyed, I loved the drifting sense of the writing, the characterizations... etc. However, there were a few big flaws that had me really bothered:

That would never happen. Not because our ethics will never degrade to that point - obviously, it can, look at various genocides across history - but because it doesn't make practical sense. So, you first spent plenty of money on a propaganda campaign to make this palpable to mainstream civilization. You then spend plenty of money and resources perfection human cloning. And then, you spend plenty of money and resources raising each invididual clone in a minimum of circumstances for food, hydration and medical suchness until an appropriate physical maturity for harvest, yet in this book, the further step of an excellent education, psychological fitness, and possessions was made. More resources.

Now... look at how the money/resources could have instead been used to develop more cost efficient ways of getting good organs. You could be working on things such as the present-day artificial heart, which are feasible (and probably a fair bit cheaper to develop and "manufacture".) But let's say that doesn't work. Clearly, they can clone. How far of a step is it to cloning individual organs? Why not just shoot for that, which would be far more cost effective? Or, even failing that, why not just create anencephalics so you don't have to spend as much money supporting them, and then not having to deal with the public policy/propoganda expenses?

And, as a side note: we discussed organ harvestation in my philosophy class as a reason to end a life... An interesting statistic he gave us was that if, after a natural death, organ harvestation was mandatory, versus only when there is donor consent, even discluding those organs that could not be donated due to problems (an alcoholic's liver, a smoker's lungs/heart, cancer patients, etc.) something like 2/3 of the organ deficiencies in this country would be solved! So, if this sort of policy was instituted (as I would think would already be the case in a country driven to cloning...) the majority of the problem would be solved. Not all of it, but it would be less urgent...

This bothered me immensely. If you take that whole situation as a given... sure. But you can't use it as a "warning" against cloning, since it's simply not cost effective, and so any government wouldn't really be keen on it when there's more feasible alternatives (that also present less ethical difficulties to the public... but that can be overturned with good propoganda so that's not much.)

Another problem. Repeat donations. I might just be missing something stupid here, but generally speaking, you lose a major organ, you die. So what are they going in repeatedly for? There's only a few things you can donate while still having time to live (briefly) between donations... kidneys, lung lobes, etc. (Not counting blood/marrow since that can be donated by anyone.) How does this work? This bothered me so much... so if I'm doing something stupid, yell at me before I get worked up about it.

The final problem I found was that there was no struggle. Everything was blindly accepted. Yes, there was conditioning to that state present... but there was nothing in these otherwise strong, independant characters, no sign of "Let's fight the system" or "This is immoral" or "The people we are dying to save are no more deserving than us of life" or... anything. At best? "Let's get a deferral for a few years." So, this novel felt very, very hollow at me at the core. Blind acceptance. Yes, most people would, given the situation presented in the novel, just follow along with this set "fate". But not everyone in even the most conditioned of situations...

So, I give it a 4/5. Emotionally powerful, but little else. Razz

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Gus
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Re: Never Let Me Go Discussion Thread.

Postby Gus » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:48 pm

Yeah, I agree about the practicality stuff. [s]This is another one of those "soft" sci-fi books... use psuedoscience and leave it unexplained and ignore them, but focus on the characters and stuff.[/s]

Dim Aldebaran wrote:Another problem. Repeat donations. I might just be missing something stupid here, but generally speaking, you lose a major organ, you die. So what are they going in repeatedly for? There's only a few things you can donate while still having time to live (briefly) between donations... kidneys, lung lobes, etc. (Not counting blood/marrow since that can be donated by anyone.) How does this work? This bothered me so much... so if I'm doing something stupid, yell at me before I get worked up about it.

Hmm... you can definitely donate one of your kidneys. Blood/marrow donations could be repeated... Lung lobes, not sure, but I'll trust you. And pieces of the liver; let it regenerate and then grab another chunk.

So that's about four different organs... four donations, and then they die.
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silverphoenix
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Re: Never Let Me Go Discussion Thread.

Postby silverphoenix » Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:05 pm

The book is really good and all (though I'm ashamed to admit I'm still not finished, I skipped and skimmed over parts of it Embarassed ), but I am appalled at how the Hailsham students just seem so unperturbed by the fact that they are clones being used to harvest organs. And they do this repeatedly, then die! It was so sad at the end, how Kathy and Tommy just accept the fact that they can't be together, and Tommy dies.
Last edited by silverphoenix on Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dim Aldebaran
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Re: Never Let Me Go Discussion Thread.

Postby Dim Aldebaran » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:16 am

Hmm... you can definitely donate one of your kidneys. Blood/marrow donations could be repeated... Lung lobes, not sure, but I'll trust you. And pieces of the liver; let it regenerate and then grab another chunk.

So that's about four different organs... four donations, and then they die.
Yeah, I agree about the practicality stuff. [s]This is another one of those "soft" sci-fi books... use psuedoscience and leave it unexplained and ignore them, but focus on the characters and stuff.[/s]

Well, that still doesn't make sense. If the liver can regenerate, plus blood/bone marrow why not just let them live and harvest those periodically? Far more cost efficient than raising whole new ones every single time.

But for the major organs that can be donated without killing... why not just take them all at once versus having them spread over time? Again with cost efficiency: better to get them out all at once versus having to support them in "recovery" centers while waiting for the next one. Not to mention issues of how the other organs are going to deteriorate without the other ones in the system... So, it was just done as a drama point. That bothers me immensely. If you're going to talk about an issue like this, you have to look at these things if you expect to really make a point about your writing... and he didn't. Yes, marvelous book as far as drama is concerned... but you can't take it as anything else and it's... agh.

[s]I know, but it still bothers me. Some of the reviews I read of this book were all like, This is a warning to all you who want to clone things! and it's like, Erm, no, this book was actually pretty unrealistic no matter how desperate we are... Seriously, if you're going to be going, Oh the humanity of this situation! Oh, the angst! Feel it oozing out between the pages! and use that to make some statement about how Cloning=Bad Ethics, then for chrissakes look at the actual issues here. That's what really bothers me about soft science books... sometimes they get it just right, get the stuff out while still having that light concept stuff in there proper, but other times... like this...[/rant][/s]

artefo
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Re: Never Let Me Go Discussion Thread.

Postby artefo » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:42 am

Dim Aldebaran wrote:Well, that still doesn't make sense. If the liver can regenerate, plus blood/bone marrow why not just let them live and harvest those periodically? Far more cost efficient than raising whole new ones every single time.

But for the major organs that can be donated without killing... why not just take them all at once versus having them spread over time? Again with cost efficiency: better to get them out all at once versus having to support them in "recovery" centers while waiting for the next one.


I think donated your major organs might not kill you but they can sure harm the doners body a lot. Some organs if you take them all out at a time the doner will die. Or after a period of time they will die. And I don't think the liver can regenerate that fast for it to be donated to the other person. For cost and efficiency, it is not really about that, but the number of lives you can safe. No point if the patient is alive after the donation but the doner died. (I did not have the chance to read the book so just erase what i've said if what i said is wrong to the book.)


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