Stricter Gun Laws?

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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby jenn-jenn » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:43 am

Antilles wrote:I'm all for laws banning assault weapons and military hardware, but taking away low-caliber rifles (hunting), handguns (self-defense), and shotguns (both) seems excessive to me. I'm also all for laws and legal red-tape that checks and double checks criminal and mental health records before allowing access to a gun.


Agreed. But I'm wondering when this debate turned into "no guns ever" from its title.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby sharkie » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:04 pm

I suppose that in the USA guns are so common that outlawing them would mean that they would still be circulated. However stricter controls in my opinion would have to be similar to getting a drivers license. If you want a gun you should have to be assessed.


But to phrase this another way. Do you think guns should be made legal in the UK? Where gun crime is low and we've had... 2 school shootings that I can remember in my lifetime. Do you think that would have any benefits. People fear guns, so they buy guns. Here I feel safe, but when I was in the USA I loved it but I was still thinking "guns guns guns". It's not the people that I was scared of, it was the fact that they have access to guns.

And what I don't understand, Antilles, is how you can say that outlawing guns will not stop the gun problem when it obviously does. Outlawing drugs makes them exciting, it makes them something rebellious, people have fun when they are high... people here take plenty of drugs despite them being illegal. Guns are illegal however and nobody has guns. If someone had drugs, I probably would be like "okay that's your life your wasting", if someone had a gun I'd go down the policestation and grass them in immedietly.

I mean, are you honestly saying that you don't think the death rate by guns in the USA (which is HUGE) would fal considerablyl if guns were illegal.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby jenn-jenn » Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:06 am

sharkie wrote: Here I feel safe, but when I was in the USA I loved it but I was still thinking "guns guns guns". It's not the people that I was scared of, it was the fact that they have access to guns.


Wow, that's a really interesting perspective.

I can't say I've ever thought about people having access to guns or having them in their homes, etc. because that's not how my family is. We don't have guns and probably won't. However, the family I babysit for does keep guns in the house (because they hunt) and that doesn't really bother me either. It would only bother me if one of the kids had an accident with the guns while I was there (or even when I'm not there, I do care about the kids). However, I know that's not likely to happen either, because the guns are kept in the basement, which is locked unless one of the parents unlocks it.

So, my neighbors are a good example of being responsible with their guns. They keep their guns in a locked cabinet in their basement, which is also locked, and they teach their kids all about hunter safety.

But there are also many bad examples of people having guns, accidents with guns, etc. which is why I'd be in favor of a stricter process to get a permit for a weapon.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Antilles » Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:30 am

Sharkie, I've never been to the UK and can't speak for the likely results of gun legislation there. So consider my arguments to be US-oriented, for the most part.

Like I mentioned above, I am completely in favor of stricter legislation on who can get a firearm. There should be training requirements, just like for driving, as well as strict criminal and mental health requirements. If somebody has chronic depression or a felony on their record, I don't want them anywhere near a gun. So consider me in favor of gun-licensing legislation, but against banning self-defense and hunting firearms. Military weapons are, of course, a whole different story.

You said outlawing drugs makes them exciting. I don't know if you've ever held a loaded gun before, but I can say firsthand that firing one is plenty exciting, even when it's legal. Making them illegal just adds to the thrill, so yes, I'd say illegalizing guns isn't going to hurt their popularity any. Outlawing guns, at least in the US, will keep them in the hands of criminals who already have them while taking them away from law-abiding citizens. Net result: the ratio or armed criminals to armed civilians grows, emboldening criminals.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby nindra » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:14 am

sharkie wrote:B) The bottom line is not that criminals break laws- it's that guns KILL. If guns were not readily available then there would be a lot less problems. A gun is very ineffective as a defense if you already have a gun pointed at you. And people being shot in the USA is a regular occurance. Here it's news. In Glasgow- knife crime is common. If someone gets shot it's breaking news because nobody has guns. If people could get their hands on guns here- people would use them. Trust me, it's that kind of city. In my life I remember... 3 shootings in glasgow. All of which were rich white east end gangster related shootings.

Finland: We drink a lot. Most men have military training. We have quite a lot of guns (32% of population, according to Wikipedia. E.g Dad has air [rifle|pistol] and .22 rifle ('m not sure if any of them can kill, but at least they hurt a lot). I prefer air rifle :P). But if you shoot people, you get to news. But due to few recent events we have been making the laws stricter, but I don't think they're taking our rifles away. :P But we've never been allowed to carry weapons in public (if you do, people around you _will_ call cops. We had one incident last year). Knives are ok if they're not concealed.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby sharkie » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:13 pm

Okay, Antilles it seems that we are pretty much nearly on the same page. And I can relate the excitement of a gun simply from paintball. You do get excited, the fight or flight rush, so I suppose you are right. I agree that hunting guns shouldn't be illegal, I think they are allowed here. I'm pretty sure farmers and hunters are the exception to the rule. However I think Handguns are the big baddy. Of course if there were these tests that we both think should be introduced- then they wouldn't be as big a problem.

@Nindra, what kind of guns is it? Are there restricitions on the kind of guns you can have?
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby nindra » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:29 pm

sharkie wrote:@Nindra, what kind of guns is it? Are there restricitions on the kind of guns you can have?
Pistols, rifles and shotguns. As long as it's not automatic, rocket/grenade launcher, or a missile system...

Also...
Wikipedia wrote:To obtain a firearms license, an individual must declare a valid reason to own a gun. Acceptable reasons include hunting, sports or hobby shooting, profession related, show or promotion or exhibition, collection or museum, souvenir, and signalling. It is worth noticing that self- or home defence are not considered valid reasons. The applicant must provide evidence supporting the acquisition license application to prove that he or she is actually using firearms for the stated purpose(s). Such proof may consist of written declarations from other license holders as referees, shooting diaries or certificates from a shooting club
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby bentj96 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:15 am

This is ridiculous. I don't even get why guns are legal... What are you going to do? Shoot someone in self defense? Lets be sensible here. I can't bring myself to hurt anyone, unless it's a smack to the head or something. I don't think anyone normal could shoot anyone.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Kitsy » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:40 pm

I'm generally against guns being legalised, but that's a ridiculously general statement bentj. Just because you couldn't shoot someone, doesn't mean that other's couldn't. It also doesn't mean that anyone who could shoot someone isn't classed as "normal", they are just different from you.

And you really don't know if you could or couldn't shoot someone, unless you've been in a life or death situation involving a gun and you didn't use it. I don't know if I could ever shoot someone - I don't like the idea, but if it came to it maybe I would.
And what about the police or other such organisations - they have to shoot people sometimes. Are they not "normal" or "good" people? They're doing it to protect people, and isn't that what someone who is using a gun to protect themselves or their family is doing too?

That all being said, I think it would probably be a good idea if guns were slowly phased in as illegal. But I don't really know enough about the countries where guns are legal to make an informed opinion. I only know that in the UK, gun crime is no where near as high as it is in the US, and guns are illegal here. But of course, it's far more complicated than that.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby bentj96 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:34 pm

Still...statistics will tell the story. How many armed murders and gangs relying in guns compared to how many lives saved my civilians defending themselves. I think I maybe got the wrong idea over there.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Antilles » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:08 pm

I've already made all my arguments before, but I'd like to point out that there is no way to create statistics on "lives saved," since you have no way to go back and see how many would have been lost.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby bentj96 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:37 pm

One thing I know is that a story about someone being saved using a gun wielded by a civilian is rare and murders with guns are not.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Kitsy » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:01 pm

You're only giving anecdotal evidence bentj, and its only relevant to what you've heard. You're saying that gun-shooting stories are not rare? I have heard so few, they're ridiculously rare to me. If I heard of a shooting in my area I'd be absolutely astounded. I can't say whether people being saved using a gun stories are as rare as that, because guns are illegal here so I never hear them.

But surely if you made guns illegal then there would be no stories about people saving themselves with guns? Particularly in a country like the US where it would take a long time to phase guns out and so it would be relatively easy to get your hands on an illegal gun.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby bentj96 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:50 am

That is a good point Kitsy, but starting now will mean results later right? If they never start, it will never end.

I never said that they should outlaw guns completely. Or did I...Well either way, I've changed my mind. Stricter gun laws will help, but it will only make a difference, not a huge change. They could only sell one gun to each civilian who has had background checks and who has an ID. People will still blackmail civilians for guns, but it will do something at least.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby bluealice » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:22 pm

This is mainly common sense. Of course, people who disagrees on Stricter Laws, love to kill, using "defense" as their reason. I'm a pre- pacifist (only in my thoughts), which makes me agree to stricter laws. Actually, it's better that there are no deadly weapons at all... I hope I'm a LEPrecon. They only use their weapons for saving. Holly's Neutrino 3000 is better than Butler's SIG Sauer- cause it's too deadly and scary.
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