Stricter Gun Laws?

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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby sharkie » Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:44 pm

And once again there has to be a comparison.

Compare gun crime in the US to any other western country that doesn't allow guns and you'll see. In England there is a fair amount of gun crime but let's make one thing clear. Whether or nto the people who are victims have guns is completely pointless. A lot of the time it is teenagers and children who are shot and they can't be expected to shoot back. And, as I said back ages ago, if one guy pulls out a gun and fires it, completely out of the blue what are the chances of you being able to reach and pull your own out yourself.

All your doing is making it easier for people to access guns wheras if someone was found with a gun in UK imagine what would happen. In the US the police could search someone, find a gun, let them keep it, then they could go kill someone.

I live in a place that was dubbed 'knife city' once, and the truth of that is horrific. But lets face it, which is harder to run from. A gun or a knife?
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby James Taylor » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:33 pm

That is not my point. *sighs* I guess I'll just have to use the facts. Read this study I mean REALLY read it. Don't just read the first two lines and say you read the entire thing. If you have any respect me, or any other person with the same beliefs I do, just read it.http://www.gunowners.org/fs0404.htm
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Juice » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:01 am

I keep seeing people arguing with the same logic: "Hey, look at countries that banned guns. They have way less violence than the US! America, you should ban guns too!"

Hate to break it to you all, but take it from someone that lives in America: Some people in the US are stupid as hell. It doesn't matter whether you ban them or not, there will ALWAYS be gun violence here. I'll admit, my opinion is a little biased for a few reasons: I've lived and grown up around guns, so I'm used to them. Also, I live in the middle of nowhere, so if some psycho decides to try and kill me when I'm home alone, I would want a gun near by, so I think guns are necessary. Some people may be in a different situation than me, and therefore have varied opinions, which is fine, but my logic is my logic. I guess it just makes sense to me and nobody else.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Doctor Universalis » Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:49 pm

I have to agree with juice. After all, the people who really shouldn't have guns are the ones who will be most willing to obtain them illegally.

And yes, there will always be stupid people in America, although I hope that no one is arguing about that.

I didn't actually grow up around guns, but my grandfather hunts as a hobby, both with bow and arrow and guns. There is no reason to deny honest, law abiding citizens their rights as a stopgap measure to reduce violent deaths. Education and banning gun ownership/possession by those convicted of violent crimes is the way to go, in my opinion.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Advin21 » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:36 pm

Guns are like everything around us. It not the tool. It's how you use them that matters. You could use guns to protect yourself in a hostile environment. Just like Butler. He carried weapons but he didn't just start killing innocent people.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Doctor Universalis » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:32 am

Not to lend my voice to the anti-gun side, but, Butler did use guns as part of violent crimes, like, you know, assaulting an officer, and kidnapping. Just saying that he is not the best example. Try this, from 232 reasons to love the Marines: "93. John Lovell. A 71-year-old former Marine is sitting in a Subway restaurant when two armed men try to rob the place. Lovell grabs his .45, kills one and wounds the other. No word on how Lovell’s sandwich fared."
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby carino » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:56 pm

Doctor Universalis wrote:I have to agree with juice. After all, the people who really shouldn't have guns are the ones who will be most willing to obtain them illegally.

And yes, there will always be stupid people in America, although I hope that no one is arguing about that.

I didn't actually grow up around guns, but my grandfather hunts as a hobby, both with bow and arrow and guns. There is no reason to deny honest, law abiding citizens their rights as a stopgap measure to reduce violent deaths. Education and banning gun ownership/possession by those convicted of violent crimes is the way to go, in my opinion.


That's a good point. But they'll probably find a way to get them anyhow.
I personally believe in anti-gun laws...I've never seen the point of one.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Juice » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:59 pm

Doctor Universalis wrote:Not to lend my voice to the anti-gun side, but, Butler did use guns as part of violent crimes, like, you know, assaulting an officer, and kidnapping. Just saying that he is not the best example. Try this, from 232 reasons to love the Marines: "93. John Lovell. A 71-year-old former Marine is sitting in a Subway restaurant when two armed men try to rob the place. Lovell grabs his .45, kills one and wounds the other. No word on how Lovell’s sandwich fared."



Finally, a good example. I'd go and find one, but I'm too lazy. But that is pretty much my (and others') point(s) translated into reality.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby lethe_naiad » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:34 am

So a good outcome is one where a stranger shoots attackers? If there was anti-gun legislation, the attackers most probably wouldn't have guns in the first place. Or at least they wouldn't be dead. They deserve a fair trial. Not some idiot taking the law into his own hands and shooting them.

Since when do people deserve to carry around the easiest way to kill people?

The facts still remain the way they are, no matter what your opinion. The US has high rates of gun deaths per capita. Countries which ban guns don't.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Juice » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:04 am

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but if someone was threatening myself or others around me at gunpoint, I would rather have a gun and shoot them then say, "Excuse me, would you please put the gun down and come to a jail cell for a few days, then to a federal court to be tried? Thank you for your cooperation." And if they were so low as to try and rob a Subway, they would probably care less about a law restricting gun ownership.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Doctor Universalis » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:00 pm

I agree with Juice. What's more, people deserve a fair trial after they have been stopped from being an immediate threat to the innocent people around them. I am pretty sure that I would kill someone if he came, with a gun, into a store I was in and held up the place: I would feel that I was in a situation in which my life and those of the law-abiding citizens around me were in immediate peril, and would act accordingly.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby lethe_naiad » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:16 am

I would never carry a gun in the first place. Too much possible danger.

And nobody has refuted me on the fact that nations which allow guns have higher rates of gun death than nations without them.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby silverphoenix » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:02 am

I didn't realize people were still posting on this topic. Thanks guys, it's good to know people care about such issues. Anyway, with elections (in USA) coming up it's all the more important that we vote someone who will know how to handle the whole gun control problem in such a way that residents will feel safer but not feel that their rights have been infringed on.

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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Doctor Universalis » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:56 pm

Well, Lethe, is it possible that the correlation has to do with other factors, such as better welfare systems, etc? Because if the American war on drugs has taught me anything, it is that we could not stop criminals from gaining access to firearms if they were to be outlawed. And, of course, the American justice system is a joke, like Mike Tyson getting one day in prison for drunk driving and cocaine possession.
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Re: Stricter Gun Laws?

Postby Lime Yay » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:14 am

Doctor Universalis wrote:Well, Lethe, is it possible that the correlation has to do with other factors, such as better welfare systems, etc? Because if the American war on drugs has taught me anything, it is that we could not stop criminals from gaining access to firearms if they were to be outlawed. And, of course, the American justice system is a joke, like Mike Tyson getting one day in prison for drunk driving and cocaine possession.



No, I think Lethe's right. With less access to guns, there'd be less gun-deaths. The only gun-death category that wouldn't go down would probably be organized crime, I think. I don't see how it could be otherwise. Better welfare means people that can afford to pay for smuggled guns. Razz

I don't think the American justice system is a joke. I think it does the best that a fair system can, and that all systems are flawed, so of course it's not perfect. I don't know how I'd improve it, at any rate, even if murderers get off ridiculously free sometimes.


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