Capital Punishment

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Do Criminals Deserve Capital Punishment?

Yes
5
21%
No
16
67%
Don't Know
3
13%
 
Total votes: 24

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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby sharkie » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:32 pm

Lucan wrote:He isn't powerful (because he is dead). But his agents did kill in the hundreds, and he was just an evil son of a Pretty pink butterflies. Watch the military channel, or talk to a marine. First hand expirence beats all that one might pretend to know.

Besides, the chances of large countries, important countries (I.E Russia, America, China) getting rid of the Capital Punishment is, I find, very unlikely. They may not be the top executors, but I doubt they'll get rid of it. NOTE: I consider the UK important, but I'm not sure they use Capital punishment.




COULD YOU PLEASE LOOK THINGS UP ON THE INTERNET THEN


PLEASE

I'm actually checking facts before i say them. You're not.

EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY IN THE EUROPEAN UNION DOESN'T HAVE A DEATH PENALTY

RUSSIA STILL HAS THE DEATH PENALTY BUT HASN'T EXECUTED ANY ONE IN ABOUT 20 OR 30 YEARS.

Setting the USA as an example is silly because very very few people respect the USA as a country.

If you have the death penalty you lead to cases like iran where the use of the death penalty is beyond disgusting.

BUT PLEASE

if you're going to argue here.Use the internet, because you find some interesting things there.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby Lucan » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:48 pm

It does not matter they do not respect it, it is a country, and one of the large, well known countries. Many people hate the USA, but to hate something you must know it exists. And Russia has very very few executions, but they still carry the capital punishment. I never said they had executed anyone soon. You are misunderstandig me. Russia could not have executed anyone in 100 years for all I care: That does not mean they do not carry capital punishment. Maybe you should read more carefully.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby sharkie » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:11 pm

I'm sorry. Capital punishment is where people die.

Even if they still have capital punishment in their law, the fact that no one has been sentanced to death in years means that you frankly can't use it is an example.

Enough said.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby Lucan » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:06 pm

Well, yes I can, because it still has it in the law. Capital punishment is a form of punishment that sentences someone to death. Russia still lists capital punishment as lega punishment that can be enforced if the judge believes the crime is worty, but then of course more then just the judges approval has to happen. It may not have been put to use since the Soviet Union's days, but it's goverment could still sentence someone to death and do it legally.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby Gibbering moron » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:26 pm

I don't really expect they would get away with it. As long as they are in European union, the have to obey the Council of Europe's human right act which outlaws capital punishment. (?) So even though they as a country don't have a law against it, they can't do it because they are in Europe.

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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby Lucan » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:14 am

Is Russia even in the european union? Cause a large part of Russia is in Asia.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby sharkie » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:26 am

Lucan wrote:Is Russia even in the european union? Cause a large part of Russia is in Asia.



no Russia isnt in the EU I was just about to say that.

However one thing hat might interest people, particuarly people that insist the EU isnt important. The EU is begining to insist that all the observing countries, the USA included, makes efforts to reduce their use of the death penalty. If they follow through with their inistance they could help to reduce the amount of death sentances in developed countries like the USA.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby mcfeegle » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:45 pm

Hurray for the EU!

I'm inclined to agree with Sharkie. You are trying to argue that Capital Punisment can never be done away with, but you're arguements seem to not have much to do with that. Iran is an extreme example, and cannot be used to acurately portray the rest of the world. The USA may be a large country, but the fact that it has capitol punishment will most likely not effect other countries decisions on wether or not to keep it. The USA is currently not very well respected, so people would not want to pay attention to it's example.

As for Russia, I think it can go either way. You could say that it has capital punishment, since it's in the law, or that it doesn't, because they haven't actually killed anyone recently. Etiher way, I don't think it makes a good example for why Capital Punishment will not be done away with.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby Gibbering moron » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:29 pm

Sorry. :blush: I was talking about western Russia which is eastern European. ( Or so it says on Google. ) I don't really think Russia, like you said, can be used as an example as they haven't used the death penalty in ages.

I think the world is constantly changing and advancing, i mean a few hundred years ago they didn't really have vegetarians and vegans or animal rights. Not in the same way anyway. Now though they are fairly common.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby Nikita » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:41 pm

Lucan wrote:He isn't powerful (because he is dead). But his agents did kill in the hundreds, and he was just an evil son of a Pretty pink butterflies. Watch the military channel, or talk to a marine. First hand expirence beats all that one might pretend to know.

Besides, the chances of large countries, important countries (I.E Russia, America, China) getting rid of the Capital Punishment is, I find, very unlikely. They may not be the top executors, but I doubt they'll get rid of it. NOTE: I consider the UK important, but I'm not sure they use Capital punishment.


Could you please watch your language? This is a board that encourages children to visit, and saying something like "evil son of a Pretty pink butterflies" really isn't appropriate at all.

Oh, and BTW, my stance on this: Capital punishment is only alright if someone's committed crimes against humanity. (e.g Adolf Eichmann, designer of the Final Solution for the Extermination for Jewish People. )

His charges:



Charges

“Charge 1: He was ultimately responsible for the murder of millions of Jews.

Charge 2: He placed these Jews, before they were murdered, in living conditions designed to kill them.

Charge 3: He caused them grave physical and mental harm.

Charge 4: He took actions which resulted in the sterilization of Jews and otherwise prevented childbirth.

Charge 5: He caused the enslavement, starvation, and deportation of millions of Jews.

Charge 6: He caused general persecution of Jews based on national, racial, religious and political grounds.

Charge 7: He spoiled Jewish property by inhuman measures involving compulsion, robbery, terrorism and violence.

Charge 8: That all of the above were punishable war crimes.

Charge 9: He deported a half-million Poles.

Charge 10: He deported 14,000 Slovenes.

Charge 11: He deported tens of thousands of gypsies.

Charge 12: He deported and murdered 100 Czech children from the village of Lidice.

(BTW, I took that from The Eichmann Trial, an established website - and it's also from my own year-long history project, in which facts must be verified, so I'm positive that these were his exact charges.)

So you see what I mean. This man was clearly a blight upon humanity. He did receive the death sentence (might I mention that he was the only man in Israel's history ever to receive this sentence.)

So, yeah. If the person committed crimes against humanity (genocide, etc. - this isn't covering singular murders) capital punishment is alright. If not, it's definitely not alright.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby Lucan » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:12 am

Yeah, Eichman was an evil...son of...well he was an evil man. And I, also, do not think capital punishment should be taken lightly. Here is a list I have comprised of people I believe should recive (and some did, or died in other ways) capital punishment.

List:

-The general and his staff who massacred the 5,000 men and boys in that one village during the Bosnian war
-Commander of Burmian forces in Burma
-Adolf Eichman
-Adolf Hitler (Two Adolfs :/)
-Charles manson
-Yorkshire ripper

That is all.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby opalkoboi » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:08 pm

Yes. Murderers SHOULD be killed. Only if they have 100% proof they did it, to save trajic mistakes.

Reasoning:

--Do we really need to, or want to, spend hundreds of pounds looking after these people?
--Jails are over-crowded, costing us more money.
--They don't deserve to live, the...I can't discribe the evil-ness in a word that wouldn't be censored in even adult books.
--Strict punishment is the way to disapline.
--It's justice. An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth...life for a life. I've always believed that.
--Taking away their freedom for 25/+ years won't bring back the life lost, or give the family hurt fair justice. They should be killed so everything is square.

A pretty solid argument, but if anyone wants to disagree with me...
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby sharkie » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:15 pm

Why don't you go through the thread and read the arguments against it before replying with so much conviction.

Because your argument is not solid. AT ALL.

You sound like you're quoting the daily mail. So let's look at the UK, because we both live there.

Okay so let's look into it:

Opal, rehabilitation is more effective than having a system that people are scared of. In the USA the system is much harsher than the UK in terms of prison length. Do you see their crime rate dropping?
The way to save money is not by killing people, do you understand death row? People don't just get killed in two weeks. They will probably spend YEARS on death row, not saving any money and making their death just revenge that doesn't benefit anyone at the end. It just kills someone, and if you take pleasure from knowing someone is dead EVER I think there is something wrong with you. Relief, fair enough. But enjoyment? No.

Do you know what would save money? Scrapping sentences under a year. I get the impression that you like the 'lock em up and throw away the key attitude' but at the same time you go 'oh tax payers money'. What is a lot more practical is having petty crime, etc being served out as community service. Increases the work ethic AND saves money. Saves a lot more money than executing murderers, who will probably spend longer waiting for death than their normal sentence would be.

Strict punishment is not effective. People come out resentful, what is effective is a prison that improves people and releases them to society with means to a better life.

Because what you're forgetting about is that the majority of people who commit crimes are poor, with a low education and little opportunities for unemployment. Improving their ability to work etc, makes them less likely to commit crime.

Now an Eye For an Eye! Ha! That's such stupid rubbish. Should we shag all rapists? Someone kills a dog, well I'll kill your dog!

It's SO stupid. These people have done something WRONG. How can you possibly condemn them when you operate on an eye for an eye. How can you say something is wrong if you do it back.

And now let me bring to the other thing. What happens with capital punishment is this: it isn't operated fairly. If you committed a crime, you, a middle class white woman killed another middle class white woman, would probably get away with it. If an asian (pakistani/Indian) guy was to kill you, he'd probably have a higher chance of death penalty. It's NOT operated fairly.

Besides, murder is never proved beyond all reasonable doubt. What if you found out you'd executed someone innocent, would it be worth it to kill all those other murderers, who wouldn't be posing any threat to public, or less cost, locked up in jail. Essentially, because we cannot prove murder beyond all reasonable doubt, by introducing death penalty you put innocent people's lives at risk.

Illinois scrapped it's death penalty because evidence surfaced that suggested they had put to death many prisoners who were innocent. This state saw that it just put people at risk, for futile reasons, and took action. We are very lucky to live in a country without the death penalty, it's an archaic system.

Start using your brain.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby sharkie » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:15 pm

Why don't you go through the thread and read the arguments against it before replying with so much conviction.

Because your argument is not solid. AT ALL.

You sound like you're quoting the daily mail. So let's look at the UK, because we both live there.

Okay so let's look into it:

Opal, rehabilitation is more effective than having a system that people are scared of. In the USA the system is much harsher than the UK in terms of prison length. Do you see their crime rate dropping?
The way to save money is not by killing people, do you understand death row? People don't just get killed in two weeks. They will probably spend YEARS on death row, not saving any money and making their death just revenge that doesn't benefit anyone at the end. It just kills someone, and if you take pleasure from knowing someone is dead EVER I think there is something wrong with you. Relief, fair enough. But enjoyment? No.

Do you know what would save money? Scrapping sentences under a year. I get the impression that you like the 'lock em up and throw away the key attitude' but at the same time you go 'oh tax payers money'. What is a lot more practical is having petty crime, etc being served out as community service. Increases the work ethic AND saves money. Saves a lot more money than executing murderers, who will probably spend longer waiting for death than their normal sentence would be.

Strict punishment is not effective. People come out resentful, what is effective is a prison that improves people and releases them to society with means to a better life.

Because what you're forgetting about is that the majority of people who commit crimes are poor, with a low education and little opportunities for unemployment. Improving their ability to work etc, makes them less likely to commit crime.

Now an Eye For an Eye! Ha! That's such stupid rubbish. Should we shag all rapists? Someone kills a dog, well I'll kill your dog!

It's SO stupid. These people have done something WRONG. How can you possibly condemn them when you operate on an eye for an eye. How can you say something is wrong if you do it back.

And now let me bring to the other thing. What happens with capital punishment is this: it isn't operated fairly. If you committed a crime, you, a middle class white woman killed another middle class white woman, would probably get away with it. If an asian (pakistani/Indian) guy was to kill you, he'd probably have a higher chance of death penalty. It's NOT operated fairly.

Besides, murder is never proved beyond all reasonable doubt. What if you found out you'd executed someone innocent, would it be worth it to kill all those other murderers, who wouldn't be posing any threat to public, or less cost, locked up in jail. Essentially, because we cannot prove murder beyond all reasonable doubt, by introducing death penalty you put innocent people's lives at risk.

Illinois scrapped it's death penalty because evidence surfaced that suggested they had put to death many prisoners who were innocent. This state saw that it just put people at risk, for futile reasons, and took action. We are very lucky to live in a country without the death penalty, it's an archaic system.

Start using your brain.
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Re: Capital Punishment

Postby opalkoboi » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:56 pm

Death row for murderers is something I believe in. It WOULD save money. Two-three years waiting for death is cheaper than 25years imprisionment.

Of course, I don't really believe death is enough, I would like these people to suffer, and if it was down to me they'd be tortured - except that's going too far. To me, murderers aren't human.

Then enters the issue of the exicutioners. The ethics of that is dodgy, you could say "Oh it's just a job" but it is murder. Yet I believe the murder of a murderer is justice.
Then again, I can be a very vengful person. I believe in that sort of "eye for an eye" justice. After all, if any crime you commit the results happen to you then it becomes second nature not to commit a crime. And the world is over-populated anyway, I think these people don't desrve a life when they've taken one away.

Even if you don't agree, what about serial killers? They CANNOT be reabilitated and atoned. They don't deserve their place in this world. Take the camdon ripper. He'll be in jail the rest of his life. Why keep him in? Why not just kill him and save money? He is a nobody. To me, if you've killed, you are no one.

Prisons are now letting murderers out early because of over-crowding, with horrible results sometimes (they re-offend). That's where I think, if you wouldn't bring back death row, I like Maricopa prison. They don't let you out if it's over-crowded, and they are REALLY harsh to prisoners, and stastics show once you've been in there you are unlikely to re-offend. No one should be let out early. Theift should be done on community service, as that isn't worth jailing for (unless it's armed robbery, in that case I would think a short sentence, and lots of comunity work).

I think rapists should have there genitails cut off. Though that would never happen in today's soceity.

I don't think captial punishment is racist. Sorry.

And you can have hard evidence for a murder. CCTV, maybe.
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