Was Hitler really evil?

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Was Hitler really evil?

Postby bentj96 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:31 pm

Title says it all.

I believe Hitler was not truly evil. He didn't kill people for fun, or for his personal enjoyment, or even for personal glory. He dedicated his life to his country. To quote Lyon Mackenzie King, "He seemed like a man who loved his fellow men." I cannot say he was not a horrible man, a misguided child, or a mentally ill mass-murderer, but I can say that he was not evil.
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby Tenzen12 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Does realy metter if he was evil or just crazy? Result is same.
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby Kitsy » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:10 pm

Well, of course it doesn't change anything if he was evil or crazy, but surely the point of a debate isn't to change anything?

I'll just keep my answer short: I don't believe any human being is "evil," as evil suggests someone completely devoid of any good, of any sort. Also, you can't blame the Holocaust etc. on just one person - if Hitler hadn't been around, I'm sure someone else would've taken his place. I agree that alot of it had to do with his personality, but it's not entirely about one person.
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby evilopalrocks! » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:20 pm

I agree with Tenzen. and anyway, he was evil. he had a messed up way to look at life. (the Ari prespetive, which he wrote about in 'myn campef') he used that awful logic to kill mllions. a person that kills hundreds of millions of people for thier religion, thier color thier origin or the way they were born, is evil. he was cold and caculated, not crazy. he knew what he was doing and did it with no hesitations or guilt what-so-ever. he deserved to die painfully.
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby Sorcha » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:55 pm

I can see what Kitty's saying; yes he instigated the deaths of millions of people, but he didn't do it on his own. There were the people operating the gas chambers and concentration camps, who would be just as much to blame as him. Those people would have agreed with his ideas in some part otherwise they wouldn't have participated.
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby bentj96 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:00 am

This is getting off topic already... O.o

It doesn't matter if Hitler is evil or not because he's already history. I just posted this to see other people's opinions. There's just too many people who are taught that Hitler is "evil" or "bad". I really hate that word, bad. Anyways, since AF Confidential seems to be made up of people who think independently of their teachings, I decided to see what this population thinks.

I mean, I remember in Grade 4, when a kid drew a swastika. He was suspended for 2 weeks. That's just ridiculous. Sure, it's not something you should be drawing, but 2 weeks? The kid would have learned his lesson from detention, there was no need to mislead him to believe that people who do things that we think are bad, are just evil.

@evilopalrocks

I noticed you said that Hitler deserved a painful death. That's from our perspective. Hitler was highly respected in Germany for quite a long time. His vision of a united Germany that had taken its land and power back was grand. The Jews were his scapegoat, but they were murdered only because Hitler's people supported him. I seriously doubt all the killing made Hitler feel good. He was a hero and a coward at the same time.

This reminds me of the arguments used during a debate about torture in my law class. One kid said that if we tortured, we'd be just as low as those we despise. I didn't get a chance to comment, as the class had moved on, but I do have an opinion.

Not torturing would just be trying to be high and mighty. Sometimes you need to get down in the dirt to choose the lesser evil. Not torturing at all just to preserve your conscience is cowardly. The "hero" would sacrifice anything of their own to accomplish what needs to be done.

My question for you guys is, was Hitler brave or a coward? Or both?
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby evilopalrocks! » Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:49 am

well, since you put it that way....
I think in the begining he was brave, because there were many people he were against it. and he did try to begin somthing and was put in prison for it sometime in the 20's (I don't remember when and what exactly, but it was called ' the beer basement riot' or somthing like that.) after he got the power and got rid of most of the resistance, he became pretty coward and hid in his bunker in Berlin most of the time. I cant say I blame him too much for being paranoid, that is probably what kept him alive, but you still cant call it bravery...
BTW, I would like to add that killing people that are like you is extremely cruel. (he was not blond, blue eyed or good looking, and his granma was jewish)
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby bentj96 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:53 am

evilopalrocks! wrote:well, since you put it that way....
I think in the begining he was brave, because there were many people he were against it. and he did try to begin somthing and was put in prison for it sometime in the 20's (I don't remember when and what exactly, but it was called ' the beer basement riot' or somthing like that.) after he got the power and got rid of most of the resistance, he became pretty coward and hid in his bunker in Berlin most of the time. I cant say I blame him too much for being paranoid, that is probably what kept him alive, but you still cant call it bravery...
BTW, I would like to add that killing people that are like you is extremely cruel. (he was not blond, blue eyed or good looking, and his granma was jewish)


The fact that he hid in Berlin may not be because he was a coward, but he was being strategic. Acting tough so you won't be seen as a coward isn't brave at all... The reason I say he was a coward was because he killed himself in one of his bunkers before he could be found and persecuted. It's like the idea of selflessness. There is no such thing. You do things that aren't selfish to achieve a personal goal, if its helping others to feel positive, or going to heaven, or whatever. Hitler was a coward for hiding, but also brave enough to hide in order to achieve his goals. If he charged into war, would be he brave for doing so, or stupid for doing it to look brave? It's quite the dilemma.
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby cezen » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:22 am

Sorcha wrote:I can see what Kitty's saying; yes he instigated the deaths of millions of people, but he didn't do it on his own. There were the people operating the gas chambers and concentration camps, who would be just as much to blame as him. Those people would have agreed with his ideas in some part otherwise they wouldn't have participated.

Not necessarily.

Citing The Stanley Milgram Shock Experiment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
http://psychology.about.com/od/historyo ... ilgram.htm
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby Sorcha » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:39 pm

Fake shocks are nothing compared to actively knowing you are going to end someone's life.
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby cezen » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:15 pm

Sorcha wrote:Fake shocks are nothing compared to actively knowing you are going to end someone's life.

The people administering the shocks didn't know they were fake.

And, didn't stop when the actors pretending to be shocked started banging on the walls, screaming in pain, claiming to have a heart condition, or stop responding all together.

After a number of voltage level increases, the actor started to bang on the wall that separated him from the subject. After several times banging on the wall and complaining about his heart condition, all responses by the learner would cease.[1]
At this point, many people indicated their desire to stop the experiment and check on the learner. Some test subjects paused at 135 volts and began to question the purpose of the experiment. Most continued after being assured that they would not be held responsible. A few subjects began to laugh nervously or exhibit other signs of extreme stress once they heard the screams of pain coming from the learner


65% increased to the maximum shock level.

These implications can't be ignored, and can be applied to other people doing horrible things that defy their own morals because a person of significant authority told them to do it.
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby Sorcha » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:52 pm

Again I still think they're very different situations. For one the participants know they're in an experiment and were assured that it was legit and safe beforehand. And however good an actor might be it's nothing to seeing the real fear and having someone actually die at your hand.
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby Tenzen12 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:20 pm

Oh but what these people done was also legit, weren't it? Also it was order wich mean they virtualy weren't responsible (they were, but this excuse work well and always did). Even if they necessary didn't have to love it, its gradualy became normal after few tens or hundreds of dead people.
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby Arty1995 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:52 pm

Hitler's first piority was to remove jews from the face of the earth. You're probably thinking that's not very nice but then again, neither is what the Jews did to Germany. Hitler wanted to get revenge on the Jews for screwing Germany over and helping them spiral into poverty.

With Germany in poverty and being almost bankrupt, Hitler brought his country into the light and since his campaign against the jews was going so well, he figured, Say...if Jews are this easy to kill, why not just take over the world?

In the end, there's no difference between World Domination and World Peace. They both involve Depotism and corruption is always to follow.

P.S: Hitler being a good or bad character in the WW2 incident is about your morals and ethics, really...
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Re: Was Hitler really evil?

Postby Tenzen12 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:08 pm

Jews screwed with Germeny hm...

In the last few century Jews weren't alowed do most of normal jobs as crafts and such. Manny of them started as trader with nothing but old rags and work their way up. Yeas in time of hitler many of them were rich and such (means they paid high taxes and contribute to germanys prosperity), but it was due skills of several generations and again Hitler were partialy jew in first place.

But you may not know it but Jews weren't only one on list. Gypsies, negroes and slaws generaly (not sure if I didn't forget someone else as well). Kids from non Arian families who had right features were taken from families and raised as Germans. Some of concentration camps were filled by polical opponents and many others things. Are you saying these things is posible justify as well?

And last at least one of fellow member on this forum is from Izrael (jew) I hope you didn't insult her much.
Spot light steeling squad
Spoiler:
Criminal: Who are you guys!?
Tiger: You mean us? We're-
Blue Rose:We're the heroes of this town! [Steps on criminals face] My name is Blue Rose. We keep the peace in Sternbild at all times!
Tiger: ...What she said.
—Tiger and Bunny

Wolverine: Stay on topic, bub! This movie's about me!
Rorschach: Weren't all the X-Men movies about you?
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Heroic Blue screen of Death
Spoiler:
Artemis: I don't like lollipops...

Venkman: Ray has gone bye-bye, Egon... what've you got left?
Egon: Sorry, Venkman, I'm terrified beyond the capacity for rational thought.
—Ghostbusters

Antonio: Hey, Blue Rose, help us out!
Karina(Blue Rose): Daughter... Wife... Haha. Hahaha... *eye twitch*
Antonio: It's no use! We broke her!
—Tiger and Bunny (get know her crush better... he is widower, though)


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