Abortion

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Postby artefo » Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:46 pm

I think it should only be allowed when more lives would be lost unless there is abortion.

However, after a certain amount of time, I think abortions should be illegal no matter what the circumstance.


Well, maybe I'll agree, since abortion is really unfair to the baby.

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Postby Sorcha » Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:56 pm

I agree that abortion should be illegal. I also agree that there are situations when abortion may be taken into consideration (like rape). But even then, it seems a little wrong...
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Postby Stupid Ape » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:24 pm

hmm i find this issue hard because i can see both sides and my head says abortion is ok but my heart tells me its just wrong.

I just dont know, for the moment to play devil's advocate i think abortion is OK if the mother will be adversely affected even in teenage preg...

As i type it it sunds so unconvincing. I think abortion is practically always wrong (but beware im often undecisive)
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Postby sharkie » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:15 pm

Waha, here is Sharkie

OKay, I believe that abortion should only be reserved for teenage mothers to be or women who physically can not keep the baby. I believe this because, sure the girl was stupid to have sex without protection, but because of that she shouldn't have risk forfitting her whole future because a baby keeps her out of school.

But abortion is terribly easy. So that gives women the impression that the only risk of not using a condom is HIV because there's always a clinic if she does get knocked up. So woman decide that it's a risk worth taking and that is just a lack of responsibilty. I believe the only way to bring back the safe sex responisibilty is if Abortion clinics are much more strict in who they give the abortions- this could also lower the amount of people with HIV because more woman would probably be making their husbands, boyfriends and one night stands use protection.
The only exception I think that should be allowed here is if the woman was raped.
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Postby EvilGenius93 » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:26 pm

Well, I go to a parochial school, and they teach us that abortion is wrong. I agree with that because it's unfair to give a life away just like that, but then again, the devil's advocate would say that it might be for the better if the baby would lead a terrible life in the future.
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Postby Gus » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:27 pm

Hmm... really interesting. Not even sure where I stand.

Abortion... for teenage mothers. Well, they might not be able to care for the child, and probably couldn't cope with the responsibility of handing the child away. But they should have practised safe sex. In this case, I don't think abortion should be allowed.

When a person is raped... I don't know. How would you feel if you discovered that your mother was raped by your father? Or the baby could be put up for adoption.. still undecided here.

The mother's life is at risk... that also puts the baby's life at risk. Would be far worse to lose two lives than one...

If the baby has a disease and will suffer through life (say, progeria, an aging disease) then abortion could be OK. Why live for 14 years and have a good life... and then die?

If the baby is retarded and won't mentally develop past childhood... I've read a first-person acount (non-fictional) of a mother going through abortion because she knew that she'd never be able to care for the child and couldn't be a good mother.

In another first-person account (fictional), the mother didn't really care, and was just glad that she was gifted with a child. [s]Of course, the character was also infertile for a time - or at least considered to be infertile. And in that book, religion plays a large role in it...[/s]

In conclusion, I really don't know. I see both sides, but I really don't think we can set up "rules" for something like this to limit abortion...
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Postby Julia » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:06 pm

This is an extremelly hard subject. I agree with all Gus's points, but have you ever seen pictures of the babies after an abortion. It is enough to make you sick.
It is a difficult disicusion to make. If I was raped I think, sadly, that I would probably go have an abortion. Personality and behavior can be genetic and I would not want a son or daughter who was like the man who raped me. As for a genetic disorder, it would really depend on which disorder it was. If it was something that was not painful for the child, I would kept it, no matter how hard the disorder would be on me. But if the child was going to suffer for every minute of his/her life, then I would have to rethink the matter.
Abortion does a lot of things to the mother. You can be infertile, so can't have anymore childern. You also can become extremelly depressed. I remember watching one program where you ex-mother said that she felt that she needed to have baby after baby after baby, after she aborted her first child.
You can really see why this has been an argument for a very long time.

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Postby Kitsy » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:44 am

Jangrafess wrote:I don't think you can make it illegal - if you don't agree with it, just don't have one.

And as for the rape issue, if abortion is illegalised, that still takes 9 months of a woman's life being pregnant: They may not be able to function the same as when they weren't at work or general life.


9 months isn't that long a time compared to what the child will live out, once it's born. Rape is a difficult point, but if the mother wants to have an abortion just because it will intefere with her life for 9 months, then I don't think she should be allowed. It's still a child, a living person, and it's still her child. If a young/teenage girl was raped, then yes, abortion should be allowed. But if you're older, and can at least try and cope, then they should try, for their child.
And again, for young people who accidently get pregnant... they should have taken more care. And because they can't look after themselves properly, a child is half put into this world, and then has to be taken out again. I don't really know what my views are about that... I just think that they should be careful and not get into that mess in the first place.

However, if the child is going to be in pain for the rest of it's life, due to some illness or disorder, then I think an abortion should be allowed. Or if the mother and child's life is in danger. As Gus said, there's no point losing two lives if you can save one.
And as for a mother thinking she can't care for a child, then there's always adoption. S/he can still lead a good life in someone elses care, someone who can look after them.
I just don't see how someone could give up their own child simply because they feel they can't handle raising a child. And after a certain time, I think the limit is 2 months?, I think an abortion shouldn't be allowed at all.
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Postby Sorcha » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:48 am

Jangrafess wrote:Then she'll have the child, still won't care about it, the child may be adopted. I know like three people who have found out they were adopted, and they were devastated. 1. Their original mother didn't care about them. 2. There's the possible they weren't wanted to be conceived 3. Their carer isn't gentically their mother or father. and when you have a career, 9 months is a long time - other people will get your promotions etc, then you won;t get the money needed to support your life til later on, and may not be able to have children of your own desire.

My mother once told me something about adoption and it made me think: if my parents weren't my biological ones, then I wouldn't mind. They raised me, they love me. I'm sure people who are adopted don't wish that their mother had an abortion just because she didn't want them. Adoption is better than abortion. Yes, the biological parent may not want the child, but at least they get to go to someone who will love them.At least the child will know they're wanted by someone. As to a pregnancy interfering with a person's career, then they should've been more careful. I understand the point that pregnancy may interfere with your performance at work and the question of supporting yourself, but is that really a reason to destroy a life?Abortion is just an easy way out. Like sharkie mentioned earlier, it's just too easy for a person to do.

Jangrafess wrote:That's not really a just punishment though - forcing the girl to be pregnant

Pregnancy is a punishment? A child is the most precious gift of life. Ok, it's not fair that the guy can get out of it, but you can't a girl ask for alimony? If a girl doesn't want a child, then she should be more careful. (I only think abortion should be considered when a life is at stake or if a girl has been raped).
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Postby sharkie » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:13 pm

Jangrafess wrote:
Holly Short wrote:
Jangrafess wrote:I don't think you can make it illegal - if you don't agree with it, just don't have one.

And as for the rape issue, if abortion is illegalised, that still takes 9 months of a woman's life being pregnant: They may not be able to function the same as when they weren't at work or general life.


Holly Short wrote:9 months isn't that long a time compared to what the child will live out, once it's born. Rape is a difficult point, but if the mother wants to have an abortion just because it will intefere with her life for 9 months, then I don't think she should be allowed.


Then she'll have the child, still won't care about it, the child may be adopted. I know like three people who have found out they were adopted, and they were devastated. 1. Their original mother didn't care about them. 2. There's the possible they weren't wanted to be conceived 3. Their carer isn't gentically their mother or father. and when you have a career, 9 months is a long time - other people will get your promotions etc, then you won;t get the money needed to support your life til later on, and may not be able to have children of your own desire.

Holly Short wrote:[It's still a child, a living person, and it's still her child. If a young/teenage girl was raped, then yes, abortion should be allowed. But if you're older, and can at least try and cope, then they should try, for their child.


Could you live day in day out looking at a child who shares half it's genes with a perverted rapist? I couldn't.

Holly Short wrote:[And again, for young people who accidently get pregnant... they should have taken more care. And because they can't look after themselves properly, a child is half put into this world, and then has to be taken out again. I don't really know what my views are about that... I just think that they should be careful and not get into that mess in the first place.


That's not really a just punishment though - forcing the girl to be pregnant - the boy gets no visible effects, and will probably even get respect for doing what he did from his friends and other guys. Imagine when the baby is born, the girl who was immature enough to get pregnant probably smokes and drinks too - disfiguring the baby, she won't be able to care about it, and once again my points on adoption come into play.

Holly Short wrote:[However, if the child is going to be in pain for the rest of it's life, due to some illness or disorder, then I think an abortion should be allowed. Or if the mother and child's life is in danger. As Gus said, there's no point losing two lives if you can save one.
And as for a mother thinking she can't care for a child, then there's always adoption. S/he can still lead a good life in someone elses care, someone who can look after them.
I just don't see how someone could give up their own child simply because they feel they can't handle raising a child. And after a certain time, I think the limit is 2 months?, I think an abortion shouldn't be allowed at all.


Well, I've already made my points about rape, teenage pregnancies and adopted children's feelings. you may not see how someone can do that - but they can see - that's the main difference.




I love the points you've made here Jangrafess and Holly Short- babies can ruin peoples lives. Look at the teenage girls who are stuck in the house all the time, not getting a chance to work, because they got pregnant. Really with teenagers a lot of the time it's her life or the baby's.

If I got raped by a complete stranger I would definetley have an abortion if I got pregnant. Why? It all falls into the fact that I would have no income from the twat in all the time I'm off work and then my situation would be even worse. But if it was someone closer to me, ike a boyfriend or and ex or just a friend, I would probably find it a harder decision. With these circumstances more could be done and it really would depend on how well I knew the person...
t
The fact is that most people here are really looking at the wellfair of the baby, when it was really not very alive, as opposed to the women carrying the unwanted baby. And anyway, do you think a life as an unwanted child would be a happy one?
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Postby Stupid Ape » Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:59 pm

I think abortion just cannot be made illegal; the reason it was made legal at least in the UK was because women were getting it anyway in unsafe, unhygenic back street clinics (a bit like don't ban smoking because the black market will crop up). So i think it must still be available but i do feel it should not be encouraged, why because it's murder.
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Postby Kitsy » Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:39 pm

Jangrafess wrote:Then she'll have the child, still won't care about it, the child may be adopted. I know like three people who have found out they were adopted, and they were devastated. 1. Their original mother didn't care about them. 2. There's the possible they weren't wanted to be conceived 3. Their carer isn't gentically their mother or father. and when you have a career, 9 months is a long time - other people will get your promotions etc, then you won;t get the money needed to support your life til later on, and may not be able to have children of your own desire.


As Sorcha just said, the people who raised and loved you are the ones who are your parents. Wether they're their actualy parents or not. Sure, it would hurt to know your real parents didn't want you, or couldn't manage, but you'd still have a family there for you.
As for the shock of finding out you're adopted, I don't think the truth should be kept from a child. They should always know that they're adopted, but that they're adopted parents love them as if they were their own child.
Would you rather have not been born at all, or live with people who are as good as your own parents?


]Could you live day in day out looking at a child who shares half it's genes with a perverted rapist? I couldn't.


I don't know - I can't make that desison because, thankfully, that has never happened ot me. I'm just saying that if the mother thinks she can stand 9 months to bring a child into the world, then she should - instead of taking the easy way out. And if she actualy couldn't handle it, then fair enough, she could get an abortion.
And in answer to your question, I think I could. As I said, I don't know for sure, but it's your child, half of your genes, a child that you carried for nine months and could feel inside of you.

That's not really a just punishment though - forcing the girl to be pregnant - the boy gets no visible effects, and will probably even get respect for doing what he did from his friends and other guys. Imagine when the baby is born, the girl who was immature enough to get pregnant probably smokes and drinks too - disfiguring the baby, she won't be able to care about it, and once again my points on adoption come into play.


Again, as Sorcha said, a child is a blessing, and a precious thing. We can't do anything about the mother's personality, but if she thinks she can just get away with it by having an abortion, then she won't stop to think next time. And then there will be another abortion, another life lost.
And yes, it's not fair that the boy gets almost no "punishment" - but how does that make it right? That just because the guy doesn't get any side-effects, the child should be killed?
It's also not a punishment, she brought it onto herself.
But otherwise, teenage pregnancys and rape are the two points that I think abortion may/sometimes[look at all my arguments] be allowed. But only once [for the teenage pregnancy that is]
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Postby sharkie » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:05 pm

Holly Short wrote:
Jangrafess wrote:Then she'll have the child, still won't care about it, the child may be adopted. I know like three people who have found out they were adopted, and they were devastated. 1. Their original mother didn't care about them. 2. There's the possible they weren't wanted to be conceived 3. Their carer isn't gentically their mother or father. and when you have a career, 9 months is a long time - other people will get your promotions etc, then you won;t get the money needed to support your life til later on, and may not be able to have children of your own desire.


As Sorcha just said, the people who raised and loved you are the ones who are your parents. Wether they're their actualy parents or not. Sure, it would hurt to know your real parents didn't want you, or couldn't manage, but you'd still have a family there for you.
As for the shock of finding out you're adopted, I don't think the truth should be kept from a child. They should always know that they're adopted, but that they're adopted parents love them as if they were their own child.
Would you rather have not been born at all, or live with people who are as good as your own parents?


]Could you live day in day out looking at a child who shares half it's genes with a perverted rapist? I couldn't.


I don't know - I can't make that desison because, thankfully, that has never happened ot me. I'm just saying that if the mother thinks she can stand 9 months to bring a child into the world, then she should - instead of taking the easy way out. And if she actualy couldn't handle it, then fair enough, she could get an abortion.
And in answer to your question, I think I could. As I said, I don't know for sure, but it's your child, half of your genes, a child that you carried for nine months and could feel inside of you.

That's not really a just punishment though - forcing the girl to be pregnant - the boy gets no visible effects, and will probably even get respect for doing what he did from his friends and other guys. Imagine when the baby is born, the girl who was immature enough to get pregnant probably smokes and drinks too - disfiguring the baby, she won't be able to care about it, and once again my points on adoption come into play.


Again, as Sorcha said, a child is a blessing, and a precious thing. We can't do anything about the mother's personality, but if she thinks she can just get away with it by having an abortion, then she won't stop to think next time. And then there will be another abortion, another life lost.
And yes, it's not fair that the boy gets almost no "punishment" - but how does that make it right? That just because the guy doesn't get any side-effects, the child should be killed?
It's also not a punishment, she brought it onto herself.
But otherwise, teenage pregnancys and rape are the two points that I think abortion may/sometimes[look at all my arguments] be allowed. But only once [for the teenage pregnancy that is]


Holly, you're still only really looking at the babies wellfare.
Look at this. You're walking in the park with your friends celibrating because you've just been excepted for loads of things-you're close to getting into a Uni, a job- you're life is going brilliantly. But then your friends head off home and you're jumped by a guy. Bam- that could be you pregnant. That could be all those things you've been wanting down the drain. Why should the mother waste 9 months and if we compare two lives I think the mothers is ten times more important. Babies aren't always blessings. I know many people who got pregnant and from there on in things went wrong.

I myself probably couldn't pluck up the courage to go to an abortion clinic. But I have no problem with it.
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Postby Sorcha » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:35 pm

If a person is raped, then yes, abortion may be taken into consideration. But if a girl gets pregnant because she didn't use protection then that's sort of her own fault. There are places out there that help pregnant teenagers as well. They look after the welfare of the mother.
Besides, there's always adoption and I've already cleared up a few of the problems.
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Postby Sorcha » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:12 am

Ok fair enough, although at least adopted people know that they're wanted. But just a question of interest, do you think that those adopted people you know wished that their mother had an abortion?
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