Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby ILiveForTheDay » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:15 pm

Purple_Enigma wrote:Okay, I'm gonna be honest, *GOd save me from Mere Reflection and DMTFE*, A/H has been wearing off for a while. Yes, Colfer led us to it for the entire series, and YES, it's Awesome, but I'm tired of being continually put off by his interviews.

I'm still an A/Her, just not a passionate one :p


I feel awful in doing this, but I agree with you. Today I was just thinking how in his interview Colfer said 'I might do a book about Holly' and then that got me on the depressing line of thought that if he's doing a seperate book it means that Artemis is not a key character, with no romantic ties.

Urgh this is depressing. I was such a hopeful and optimistic AH-er a month or two ago.
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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby lotrfan » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:12 pm

I was actually kind of thinking that same thing, that if he does make a just Holly book and it takes place after the last AF book, then Artemis wouldn't be in it, and there would be no chance for A/H at all. *cries* So what we need to happen is for him to write books about Holly before she met Artemis, a la LEPrecon. And if he did that, it would be ok to put a love interest in for her, because we know it won't work out.

ILiveForTheDay wrote:I just can't believe that after all this time on hiatus, Juliet is just back to be a LI, as Minerva was so badly recieved.


He never said that Juliet was coming back to be a love interest. What? Stop trying to put them together (not just you, I mean everyone). What's the deal?

Tira wrote:I'll admit to believing that at one point, Artemis might have had a thing for Juliet.

Again, is there ever any evidence of this? When would he have ever had a thing for her?

xybolic wrote:Holly is 70, fine, you made her younger, which in turn made her younger in human years... around, I dunno, maybe EIGHTEEN? You know, only a few human years older than Arty?

This line made me laugh. Bravo Colfer. And let's not forget that Artemis is really 18.

tahtswutshesed wrote:Well, I read the part about romance and stopped.

Spoiler:
"But what happens to Artemis’s love life in the final book?

He’ll be 15 and there will have to be a resolution, he’ll have to find someone. I feel that the story is nearly complete now, it is a question of tying up loose ends. I want to finish it on a high."


I swear to God, if he ends up with Minerva (as a way to "tie up loose ends") I will kill myself. BAH. DO NOT WANT!

Oh God. Why? That's just such a depressing thought.

Kiki wrote:By the way, we don’t actually know when the date happened, do we? It could be something from a very long time ago (say, right after the LEPrecon short story) when she wasn’t friends with Foaly yet, and just decided to tell him recently. It is possible, right?

No, I'm pretty sure it was in between TTP and TAC right? Right? ...It has to be... Now that you bring it up, it seems so unclear. But no, it was definitely after the kiss right? Of course, that just makes Holly seem bad because then it's like, she just kissed Artemis, but then she just goes out with Trouble so soon after?

Aslo, what's with this answer?
Are you disappointed that there has not yet been an Artemis film?

It’ll be nice if it happens but Artemis isn’t a straightforward central character and that’s hard for film people


Wouldn't film people actually want a new kind of hero for movies? You know? I mean it's not like they just want to keep making movies of the same archetypes.
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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby ILiveForTheDay » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:37 pm

lotrfan wrote:I was actually kind of thinking that same thing, that if he does make a just Holly book and it takes place after the last AF book, then Artemis wouldn't be in it, and there would be no chance for A/H at all. *cries* So what we need to happen is for him to write books about Holly before she met Artemis, a la LEPrecon. And if he did that, it would be ok to put a love interest in for her, because we know it won't work out.

ILiveForTheDay wrote:I just can't believe that after all this time on hiatus, Juliet is just back to be a LI, as Minerva was so badly recieved.


He never said that Juliet was coming back to be a love interest. What? Stop trying to put them together (not just you, I mean everyone). What's the deal?

Tira wrote:I'll admit to believing that at one point, Artemis might have had a thing for Juliet.

Again, is there ever any evidence of this? When would he have ever had a thing for her?

xybolic wrote:Holly is 70, fine, you made her younger, which in turn made her younger in human years... around, I dunno, maybe EIGHTEEN? You know, only a few human years older than Arty?

This line made me laugh. Bravo Colfer. And let's not forget that Artemis is really 18.

tahtswutshesed wrote:Well, I read the part about romance and stopped.

Spoiler:
"But what happens to Artemis’s love life in the final book?

He’ll be 15 and there will have to be a resolution, he’ll have to find someone. I feel that the story is nearly complete now, it is a question of tying up loose ends. I want to finish it on a high."


I swear to God, if he ends up with Minerva (as a way to "tie up loose ends") I will kill myself. BAH. DO NOT WANT!

Oh God. Why? That's just such a depressing thought.

Kiki wrote:By the way, we don’t actually know when the date happened, do we? It could be something from a very long time ago (say, right after the LEPrecon short story) when she wasn’t friends with Foaly yet, and just decided to tell him recently. It is possible, right?

No, I'm pretty sure it was in between TTP and TAC right? Right? ...It has to be... Now that you bring it up, it seems so unclear. But no, it was definitely after the kiss right? Of course, that just makes Holly seem bad because then it's like, she just kissed Artemis, but then she just goes out with Trouble so soon after?

Aslo, what's with this answer?
Are you disappointed that there has not yet been an Artemis film?

It’ll be nice if it happens but Artemis isn’t a straightforward central character and that’s hard for film people


Wouldn't film people actually want a new kind of hero for movies? You know? I mean it's not like they just want to keep making movies of the same archetypes.


My line of thinking with Juliet is the little bits of evidence Colfer gave us in the 1st & 3rd book, and that he wants Artemis to end up with someone by the end of the series (and Minerva was so badly recieved that there's no way it can be her).

I actually doubt the date with Trouble happened after LEPrecon. It just seems like Holly told Foaly recently, and as they're really good friends you usually tell them just as soon as you go on it. Though I suppose you can argue the other way.

As for the 'hero' I'm not so sure how they're going to do it. On one hand the movie people want everyone to secretly love the bad guy, but when the bad guy's the main character there's no telling where it'll go.
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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby Tira » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:42 pm

I don't trust movie people ever since I heard about how they wanted to do an adaption of Mort by Terry Pratchett, which is about a boy who works as Death's apprentice - they loved the plot, but wanted to take out the Death angle. So, I have no faith in Hollywood anymore. Also, I'm spoiled by the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice, so I can no longer take the "well, they can't make a perfect adaption" point of view. Of course, Pride and Prejudice is a six-hour-long miniseries, not a two-hour movie, but I don't see what that has to do with anything. To be relevant, I have a feeling I will be immensely disappointed by any Artemis Fowl movie they make, no matter how good it is from an objective standpoint.

As for Artemis and Juliet, the first and third books definitely showed that she was the closest thing to a friend his age Artemis had, and made a lot of mention about how pretty she was, so I guess it's just sort of putting two and two together. I don't see why he feels a need to tie off loose ends, though. I don't mind a few loose ends in my story. It's alright if the hero's single in the end!

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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby lotrfan » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:21 am

So basically what I'm hearing about Artemis/Juliet is that in the only two books she was in, her presence gives us the possibility of A/J?
Yeah, it says she's pretty, because she is, that's her angle, but it doesn't say it like it's from Artemis's perspective (as if it were a 1st person novel). So it's just Colfer mentioning that she's pretty, not Artemis noticing she's pretty. (Unlike the time he first sees Holly...)
I don't even think he really sees her as a "friend his age" either. In the first book he treats her as an inferior (ok, that's putting it a little roughly, but what I'm trying to say is that she does what he tells her to)
I don't remember exactly the way he reacts with her in TEC though. But at that point we have J/M staring us all right in the face.

But still, Colfer hasn't said anything about putting her with him. So I don't get what you guys are seeing from this new interview. That's not a loose end really. Minerva is the loose end, now she's who we've got to worry about.

I think what's he'll do is give Artemis someone new. I really don't see him putting Juliet with him at this point, it would be way too weird. There was something that Colfer said in the interview that mad me happy a little, it was something about some actualization with Holly. I don't remember exactly, I'll go look...

His attraction to Holly has been there for a while but he hasn’t talked about it before and he develops an alter ego to express himself, in a courtly knight sort of way. Holly hates him being like this because it makes him completely useless at what he needs to do. Holly and Artemis are at completely different stages in their lives – Holly is 70 in fairy years – so while they can grow to like and respect each other they can’t be together. If you want that, read Twilight. There is a point in the series when they are briefly the same age and they kiss, but of course Artemis messes it up.

I don't know, this answer kind of makes me think that Colfer is just avoidingsaying that there is something between them. And he makes it seem like Holly is kind of ok with the kiss, but Artemis is just so romanticall incapable that he ruined the moment...
It's just so annoying how he's always using the age thing.

He’ll be 15 and there will have to be a resolution, he’ll have to find someone. I feel that the story is nearly complete now, it is a question of tying up loose ends. I want to finish it on a high.

This was what I was referring to earlier, the "resolution," but reading it now, it doesn't seem as satisfying. Because he links it with the "he'll find someone" but just alone, "resolution" is good.
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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby Tira » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:09 am

I don't know. I don't have either of the relevant books right now, so I can't really comment based on the text. I'm just relaying my impressions. I mean, he does treat her like an employee, but he also lets her get away with being extremely informal. And I want to say there was one time when she called him Arty and the narrative indicated he let her get away with it even though he wouldn't let anyone else, but I'm not sure. I haven't read the first book in ages.

Mostly we're seeing it out of process of elimination. The only two human girls anywhere near his age are Minerva and Juliet, and Minnie's apparently dropped off the face of the earth, so... I really hope he doesn't make it a new character, though. I hate it when new major characters just show up in the last book.

I don't see why Artemis has to find somebody. He could just leave it unresolved.

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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby Purple_Enigma » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:54 am

Tira wrote:I don't trust movie people ever since I heard about how they wanted to do an adaption of Mort by Terry Pratchett, which is about a boy who works as Death's apprentice - they loved the plot, but wanted to take out the Death angle. So, I have no faith in Hollywood anymore. Also, I'm spoiled by the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice, so I can no longer take the "well, they can't make a perfect adaption" point of view. Of course, Pride and Prejudice is a six-hour-long miniseries, not a two-hour movie, but I don't see what that has to do with anything. To be relevant, I have a feeling I will be immensely disappointed by any Artemis Fowl movie they make, no matter how good it is from an objective standpoint.

I know, wasn't it just AMAZING?

Anyway, back on topic, A/J seems a little weird to me, I dunno why. I always thought of Juliet as Arty's sister, y'know sort of an annoying little sister, even if she's older. That's just who she is to me. So I'll never be an A/J shipper, sorry folks. J/M is awesomely cute but a liiiiiiiiiiiiitle weird, y'know with Mulch being.....Mulch.

Tira wrote:I don't see why Artemis has to find somebody. He could just leave it unresolved.

Yeah, I think this is the only option poor ol' Colfer has left, I mean it would be a total treat for most shippers, cause they could go on believing in their own ships and reading fanfics about 'em.
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'I must go,Butler,' said Artemis firmly.'My mind is eating me alive.I think the guilt is the main problem.I must do whatever I can to atone.'
'And?' said Butler,unconvinced.
Artemis held his arms out so that Foaly could drape the suit sleeves over them.
'And I will not be beaten by that jackass.'
'Jackass?'said Foaly,wounded.‘My favourite uncle is a jackass.'


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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby lotrfan » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:59 pm

Yeah, I have to go back and read them too to really get a full understanding of it, but the reason it didn't stand out to me is probably because I've been an A/Her from day one, and those signs are just so much more obvious. Plus, Juliet is like a sister to him, that's all. Also, do you think Butler were really be ok with them dating? :P

Tira wrote:Mostly we're seeing it out of process of elimination. The only two human girls anywhere near his age are Minerva and Juliet, and Minnie's apparently dropped off the face of the earth, so... I really hope he doesn't make it a new character, though. I hate it when new major characters just show up in the last book.


Yeah, a new character would be completely ridiculous. You can't just bring in a totally new character and have her fall in love with the main character and expect us to be ok with that. I think I'd rather he were with Minerva...actually, no.
But if he can't be with Holly in the end, he should just be with no one. This is what needs to happen (or, this is what would be minorly acceptable); Holly and Artemis will finally admit that there is something there, but they unfortunately won't be able to act on it because everyone is looking down on the species/age thing...blah, blah, blah...Colfer refuses to yield...so they have to just part ways in the end or whatever, but when it actually ends, Artemis is still single, and it's just implied that in the future, once he's older, he'll get married and have kids with some random person, but it's not like we'll get a Harry Potter-esque epilogue. We'll just assume that eventually he'll get married (how else is he going to carry on the Fowl name?)
It's still not a satisfying ending, but at least he's not with someone else. And seriously, I have a feeling that's what's going to happen. :crying2:
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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby ILiveForTheDay » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:59 pm

lotrfan wrote:Yeah, I have to go back and read them too to really get a full understanding of it, but the reason it didn't stand out to me is probably because I've been an A/Her from day one, and those signs are just so much more obvious. Plus, Juliet is like a sister to him, that's all. Also, do you think Butler were really be ok with them dating? :P

Tira wrote:Mostly we're seeing it out of process of elimination. The only two human girls anywhere near his age are Minerva and Juliet, and Minnie's apparently dropped off the face of the earth, so... I really hope he doesn't make it a new character, though. I hate it when new major characters just show up in the last book.


Yeah, a new character would be completely ridiculous. You can't just bring in a totally new character and have her fall in love with the main character and expect us to be ok with that. I think I'd rather he were with Minerva...actually, no.
But if he can't be with Holly in the end, he should just be with no one. This is what needs to happen (or, this is what would be minorly acceptable); Holly and Artemis will finally admit that there is something there, but they unfortunately won't be able to act on it because everyone is looking down on the species/age thing...blah, blah, blah...Colfer refuses to yield...so they have to just part ways in the end or whatever, but when it actually ends, Artemis is still single, and it's just implied that in the future, once he's older, he'll get married and have kids with some random person, but it's not like we'll get a Harry Potter-esque epilogue. We'll just assume that eventually he'll get married (how else is he going to carry on the Fowl name?)
It's still not a satisfying ending, but at least he's not with someone else. And seriously, I have a feeling that's what's going to happen. :crying2:


NOA. Let Beckett or Myles continue the Fowl line. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, if Artemis doesn't end up with Holly he should spend the rest of his life sitting in a dark room drinking his unhappiness away, or something equally angsty. :lick:

I don't know. I just feel that that 'resolution' would be the most awfully cliche thing ever. I'd prefer A/J to that (even with the sister/brother thing they had going on. Plus I do have evidence for it from the books)
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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby bentj96 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:35 am

A/J? For a second I was thinking Artemis/Julius... He's dead.

A/H will never actually happen. Artemis will never be with Holly simple because they are not the same race. In the end, the love may be there and the relationship, but they will never truly be together.

Also A/J never really happens at all. M/J (Mulch) is more likely from what we've seen so far. There is not a single shred of proof in 7 books. Juliet isn't even much of a character yet. We know a little from TEC and we know nothing from TAC because it didn't show her true character. The only real thing I know is that she really loves Butler and she likes wrestling. A relationship with Minerva will be quite problematic too. We don't know who she is. She was only in one book. TLC was based around demons and not Minerva so the likeliness that she will play a large role in the next book is relatively low.
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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby Mizora » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:22 am

Oh my gosh. I LOVE this quote:
Holly and Artemis are at completely different stages in their lives – Holly is 70 in fairy years – so while they can grow to like and respect each other they can’t be together. If you want that, read Twilight.

Thank you, Eoin! That's just what I wanted. Also, what bentj said about A/H is right too. Finally! Someone sees from my point of view!
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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby Tira » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:42 pm

As everyone has been saying, though, it's not going to be that way for long. In about five years, they'll be the same age. And being different species has never stopped any of the many couples in D&D who parented half-elves. Heck, being different size categories hasn't stopped D&D players.

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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby ILiveForTheDay » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:10 pm

bentj96 wrote:A/J? For a second I was thinking Artemis/Julius... He's dead.

A/H will never actually happen. Artemis will never be with Holly simple because they are not the same race. In the end, the love may be there and the relationship, but they will never truly be together.

Also A/J never really happens at all. M/J (Mulch) is more likely from what we've seen so far. There is not a single shred of proof in 7 books. Juliet isn't even much of a character yet. We know a little from TEC and we know nothing from TAC because it didn't show her true character. The only real thing I know is that she really loves Butler and she likes wrestling. A relationship with Minerva will be quite problematic too. We don't know who she is. She was only in one book. TLC was based around demons and not Minerva so the likeliness that she will play a large role in the next book is relatively low.


Slowly my resistance to the inevitable is being worn away. . . This is a sad day.

But there is actually evidence for A/J. The 'For some reason Artemis didn't mind being called Arty by her' in the first book, the 'And I think he's more than a little fond of you' in the third and the 'Could you two possibly be related?' in the 7th book, which might've been Colfer's way of saying "Holly and Juliet are the same sort of people. Honest!"
But I shall be a AHer till the end. To me it's just so squiffy.
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Purple_Enigma
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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby Purple_Enigma » Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:14 am

^ Yeah I haven't missed those little A/J hints, but I dunno....It's just way too weird from my pOV. A/H please. Or at least A/M with a bitter break-up which leaves them unable to remain friends any longer and results in Minerva getting her ass ruthlessly kicked by Arty in everything she tries to do. *meehahahahaha*
TAC
Spoiler:
'I must go,Butler,' said Artemis firmly.'My mind is eating me alive.I think the guilt is the main problem.I must do whatever I can to atone.'
'And?' said Butler,unconvinced.
Artemis held his arms out so that Foaly could drape the suit sleeves over them.
'And I will not be beaten by that jackass.'
'Jackass?'said Foaly,wounded.‘My favourite uncle is a jackass.'


From here
Spoiler:
If asked in class what the Avada Kedavra curse does, yelling "It does DEATH!" may be correct but is not the manner in which one should answer.
The proper way to report to Professor McGonagall is "You wanted to see me, Professor?" Not "I have it on good authority that you have no evidence."
I will not tell the Ravenclaws that they're basically useless because Hogwarts' smartest student is in another house.
I will not conjure up lemons and say-Life hath given thou LEMONS!

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lotrfan
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Re: Artemis Fowl: The Atlantis Complex !!SPOILER ALERT!!

Postby lotrfan » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:10 pm

ILiveForTheDay wrote:
bentj96 wrote:A/J? For a second I was thinking Artemis/Julius... He's dead.

A/H will never actually happen. Artemis will never be with Holly simple because they are not the same race. In the end, the love may be there and the relationship, but they will never truly be together.

Also A/J never really happens at all. M/J (Mulch) is more likely from what we've seen so far. There is not a single shred of proof in 7 books. Juliet isn't even much of a character yet. We know a little from TEC and we know nothing from TAC because it didn't show her true character. The only real thing I know is that she really loves Butler and she likes wrestling. A relationship with Minerva will be quite problematic too. We don't know who she is. She was only in one book. TLC was based around demons and not Minerva so the likeliness that she will play a large role in the next book is relatively low.


Slowly my resistance to the inevitable is being worn away. . . This is a sad day.

But there is actually evidence for A/J. The 'For some reason Artemis didn't mind being called Arty by her' in the first book, the 'And I think he's more than a little fond of you' in the third and the 'Could you two possibly be related?' in the 7th book, which might've been Colfer's way of saying "Holly and Juliet are the same sort of people. Honest!"
But I shall be a AHer till the end. To me it's just so squiffy.


:( What you said about Colfer possibly saying that they're similar, makes me very sad. But still, I refuse to believe it.

What bentj said is probably true (about A/H) but we can't give up all hope, guys. Colfer is definitely being racist. ...Maybe we can throw that at him. If we just got someone to interview him and use the right phrases and questions, we'd get something real.

Mizora wrote:Oh my gosh. I LOVE this quote:
Holly and Artemis are at completely different stages in their lives – Holly is 70 in fairy years – so while they can grow to like and respect each other they can’t be together. If you want that, read Twilight.

Thank you, Eoin! That's just what I wanted. Also, what bentj said about A/H is right too. Finally! Someone sees from my point of view!

I have to say, I hate this quote. It's probably my least favorite actually, because Colfer isn't actually saying anything concrete, he's just recycling all the non-A/H er argument refutes. It's so frustrating. And the Twilight reference makes it even worse.

ILiveForTheDay wrote:NOA. Let Beckett or Myles continue the Fowl line. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, if Artemis doesn't end up with Holly he should spend the rest of his life sitting in a dark room drinking his unhappiness away, or something equally angsty. :lick:

I don't know. I just feel that that 'resolution' would be the most awfully cliche thing ever. I'd prefer A/J to that (even with the sister/brother thing they had going on. Plus I do have evidence for it from the books)

lol. I like te first part. Maybe he'll devote his entire life to figuring out how to turn himself into an elf or something. That would be awesome, and if anyone could do it, he totally could.
@the second part - yeah, after re-reading what I wrote, I don't really like the idea of assuming he'll marry someone else. Honestly, I can't ever picture him marrying someone other than Holly. (not that I'm sitting here planning out their wedding...I just mean that it could work...) So instead we can just assume that he'll stay single. The important thing is that he's single in the end if not with Holly.
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Obsessed with...Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Artemis Fowl, Maximum Ride, Avatar the Last Airbender....and proud
I am eternally greatful to xybolic for introducing me to Ouran High School Host Club, which I am now completely obsessed with!! :loveeyes:

"The same blood flows in my veins. The same weakness." - Aragorn, FOTR

"Don't worry Sam. Rosie knows an idiot when she sees one." - Frodo, FOTR

"Put aside the ranger. Become who you were born to be." - Elrond, ROTK

"Haruhi and I are the main chracters, so we're obviously love interests!" - Tamaki, OHSHC

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