Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books?

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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books?

Postby ILiveForTheDay » Thu May 13, 2010 4:56 pm

Kelsey Rain (: wrote:
lotrfan wrote:
Kelsey Rain (: wrote:
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Ohmygod, I totally thought the first chapter was dark, but more suspenseful then dark. Like, it was SOO intense, that I had to stop reading, get up, go to the mall for 4 hours, come back, and finish read just to relieve myself. :laughing:

But yeah, the whole part where Eoin describes the LEP shuttle melting and all the soldiers inside burning to death was pretty dark! And poor Holly too. She's injured badly and can't even get to Artemis, while he's going off getting himself killed and thinking it's all an illusion. Hmph. Can't WAIT for the book :D


How could you possibly stop reading right in the middle?! That would kill me!

I know, I didn't know the first chapter would have so much death in it, I mean, I wanted someone to die later, not in the first chapter. (wow, that makes me sound really evil...)

But seriously, I think Artemis' out of character-ness was scarier than the deaths.



What's creepier, was that he was out-of-character, WHILE BEING SO IN CHARACTER.


That is totally it! I've been wondering why having him insane freaked me out so much when I had been expecting it, and that just is such a perfect answer: Artemis still manages to be the genius boy from AF1-6 while suddenly developing these frankly scary traits.

(And like WT?! with everyone dying within the first chapter? If anyone why not have Opal?)
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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books?

Postby boy G » Fri May 14, 2010 6:34 pm

well, personally, I'd say that TLC was dark, because of Holly's death, and the idea in my head of a psychotic Demon leader leading a huge group of blood-thirsty Demons with flames in the background.

well done, Artemis.
"this could be hell", indeed...

but, i also think that TOD was dark, especially the Eleven Wonders part. i could almost feel the desperation.
yum, desperation. :lick:
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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books?

Postby Mere Reflection » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:25 am

I admit, the artemis fowl books can get slightly dark, but would you read it if it was completely cheery and nothing bad ever happened and they all lived happily ever after? I certainly wouldb't. But all of us here did, and I think some of us are secretly glad that they are just a little bit dark. :laughing: *Humming 'always look on the bright side of life' from 'the life of Brian'* Stay happy!
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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books?

Postby CriminalArtemis » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:09 am

EmblematicReprobate wrote:Well, I found 'lil Arty about as dark as Book 1 Arty. Cold, calculating - just lost his father and is slowly losing his mother, an entire criminal empire is left to him, etc. He had to be cold-blooded to make through all that...

But yeah, TTP focused on some more serious issues. Like the Extinctionists and what they were doing, unwillingly betraying a friend's trust, (can't really say kidnapping and death and/or near-death - kind of a trend by now), etc. And the last third of the book? Kinda creepy, it was. What with the sucking brain fluid from animals and... barrels of pig fat... Arty's mother...

Although, I think TOD definitely has the darkest scene of the series...


Yeah, definitely.

TTP, I felt wasn't dark as some of some other books I've read, as well as in the series either...Opal Deception was the darkest because it contain a major character death and particularly had the near-deaths of Holly and Artemis. Along with darkness, it always can show a bit maturity with the situation...
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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby Rocket Axxonu » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:52 am

xybolic wrote: The intense part in TTP is the relationship between characters, the comparisons, the betrayal, etc. Not really the adventure. TTP felt more like a character exploration than an adventure. Like the comparison of past and present Artemis, Artemis as a brother and son, Artemis as a friend, Holly and Artemis. The beginning of TLC started out as light enough, but the end was more intense.

Also TOD. Though I think only the start is dark. The end was a bit lighter.


I agree completely, I think it wasn't until the beginning of TOD that I began the process of *really* getting into the series, and started to bond with Holly as a character. The scene right after Root has been killed, and she thinks she has failed to save Artemis and Butler... But yes, it was only the beginning that was dark for me, the rest was exciting, but not frightening and oppressive in the same way, where it seemed almost hopeless for a little while.

What you said about TTP, about how the intense part is the relationship between the characters and not the adventure, I find very insightful. I think it pinpoints why TTP is my favorite book in the series by a long shot (when so many other here found it sort of lacking X3), because I loved the interactions and how we got to see so much of Artemis, especially being able to directly compare the new Artemis to the old one.

My first impression in reading it was that it was most definitely the darkest book of the series overall. For starters, although the book didn't go into great depth about this, I got the definite sense that both Artemis and Holly right from the beginning were feeling disconnected, even lost after the world had moved on without them during their three-year absence. Artemis notes the difference between the way his father treats his new sons with the almost strict, almost cold way he treated Artemis when he was the same age, and Holly seems a bit lonely, with the changes in the lives of her two best friends, Trouble and Foaly.

In this way, Holly and Artemis could really relate to each other better than they could relate to those that usually surrounded them, which made Artemis' lie to Holly and the threat of 'their friendship never being the same again' ever more disturbing. Even though they are able to make up and become friends again, at the end I was still left with a feeling that what Artemis did still created a sort of permanent rift between them.

This scene, after his battle with Opal, was particularly moving to me:

On this evening, the stars just made him feel tiny and insignificant. Nature was vast and mighty and would eventually swallow him, even the memory of him. He lay there cold and alone on the plateau, waiting for a feeling of triumph he realized would never arrive [...]

Magical sparks flowed from Holly's fingertip, engulfing Artemis like a cocoon. He felt comforted and peaceful, like a baby in its blanket. [...]

"I'm sorry I lied to you, Holly. Truly. You've done so much."

Holly's eyes were distant. "Maybe you made the wrong decision; maybe I would have made that decision myself. We're from different worlds, Artemis. We will always have doubts about each other."


The betrayal and isolation themes in this book made it the darkest one for me.

But yeah, I'm also curious about how this whole thing may have had an impact on the events in TAC (in addition to Artemis' having caused his mother's illness)

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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby Celsica » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:09 am

In what you said, the relationship of Holly and Artemis breaking I find this book was dark. But in everything else TTP was my favourite book. Action all the book, real problems, esporadical jokes, the "Do I or do I not love Holly/Artemis?" and nasty little Artemis gave me all the thrill I was expecting from the series.

I really, in overall, didn't find TTP dark. Like others said, to me the darkest one is TOD, with deaths, trolls, psychotic pixies and angry chefs. The good thing aboit that book though is that Artemis' and Holly's relationship grows A LOT!, but other than that is was as dark as a wolf's mouth.

We can take a good thing of Artemis' lie. He was actually VERY guilty of lyieng to her. That's something good in my opinion :)
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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby Rocket Axxonu » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:19 pm

Celsica wrote:In what you said, the relationship of Holly and Artemis breaking I find this book was dark. But in everything else TTP was my favourite book. Action all the book, real problems, esporadical jokes, the "Do I or do I not love Holly/Artemis?" and nasty little Artemis gave me all the thrill I was expecting from the series.

I really, in overall, didn't find TTP dark. Like others said, to me the darkest one is TOD, with deaths, trolls, psychotic pixies and angry chefs. The good thing aboit that book though is that Artemis' and Holly's relationship grows A LOT!, but other than that is was as dark as a wolf's mouth.

Lol, interesting, for me the relative 'dark' qualities of TTP are part of what made me like it so much. (:

Anyway, I'm not sure why it is, but in general the most oppressive scenes for me are ones that have more to do with emotion and relationships, rather than the threat of being eaten by a group of hungry trolls or an insane bad guy that's trying to hunt them down. (unless it's a drowning scene or one where the characters can't breathe; when Artemis and Holly hit the grill and can't get out was more unnerving for me than the trolls, for some reason x3) Such as, I found Artemis' slowly becoming unstable more creepy than Turnball Root's plans with the probe.

I think maybe it's because in the back of my mind, I expect the characters to find a way out of the near death situations - Commander Root's death took me completely by surprise for instance, and I didn't feel the sense of urgency when I was reading that scene for the first time that I get when I read it now, knowing how it's going to end. It's interesting how different readers find different parts the most disturbing about a book.


Celsica wrote:We can take a good thing of Artemis' lie. He was actually VERY guilty of lyieng to her. That's something good in my opinion :)


*going off topic* Yeah I agree, the fact that he actually felt so guilty about it was revealing about Artemis' character. The fact that he *did* tell Holly what he had done even though it would probably prevent him from getting something he wanted (namely, furthering his relationship with Holly). He thinks instead, "If you answer this question, it will be the worst thing you have ever done."

In choosing to tell her the truth, he is already
Spoiler:
doing something different from Turnball Root, who spent his whole life lying to his wife and making her think that he was some kind of hero rather than a greedy, ruthless criminal, despite how much he claimed to love her. He refused to allow her freedom, because he was so afraid she might fly away from him; but Artemis chose to tell the truth, because he couldn't live with the lie (and his own inauthenticity in such a relationship).

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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby Celsica » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:47 pm

I feel VERY pressured when they can't go out of a sentimental problem too. I'm still losing my sleep at night trying to solve out what's going to be of Holly and Artemis. But like I already said, the fact that Artemis felt bad and told Holly lifted up the pressure. It would have been a LOT darker for me if he didn't told her.

OMG I love you! that last statement made my DAY!
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I actually feel bad about not thinking that! So maybe Eoin wanted to tell us in the Leonor/Turnball relationship that it IS possible to have an elf/human relationship, you just have to have trust in the other. Eoin should definitely write love novels XD


Ok, ok, TTP was dark in it's own way, but what I maintain is that other books were darker.
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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby Rocket Axxonu » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:27 pm

Yeah, it definitely could have been a lot worse. The whole thing seemed to be resolved fairly quickly after Artemis told the truth, but at the same time, I was also thinking when I was reading it that what Artemis did (give Holly the idea to be able to speak to Commander Root again), though nice, didn't actually address what he had done, because there really wasn't anything he *could* do that would undo the damage done completely.

Like Holly and Artemis' missing three years of their lives at the end of TLC and Root's death in TOD, these events feel 'darker' to me because the effects are longer lasting.

With the whole
Spoiler:
Turnball/Leonor thing, yeah, I've heard people say that it was meant to show the possibility of an elf/human relationship, and others say that it was meant to show that the interspecies relationship *couldn't* work out. I'm of the opinion that the most we can really get out of it is that it is a prelude to dealing with human/fairy romance themes later on with Artemis and Holly, and it isn't meant to tell us anything about whether it will work out or not. That said, a part of me is hoping that it means that it is possible... X3
I know, I love the way Colfer wrote the romance in Artemis Fowl! It's not as though he's absolutely against writing romance or having the main characters get together in the end or anything; have you read any of his other books? Like Airman and the Supernaturalist...

lol, I think it probably has more to do with a reader's personal response on what they find the most unsettling. ^^' Or perhaps the term 'dark' is too ambiguous...

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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby Celsica » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:47 pm

Ooh, I forgaot Artemis' gift of forgiveness! I found it soo cute! Artemis is really a good person now. Some years ago he would have not done that.

Eoin and romance totally fit. Sadly, I haven't read his other books, but I hope I can do it soon.

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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby MinniePie » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:35 am

After it was pointed out did i think the book seemed darker, Little arty was down right mean and hateful!Celsica you should read the next book, it's not as dark and quite humerus. i liked it
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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby Celsica » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:03 am

The next book? you are talking about TAC? I've read it a thousand times! I don't get your point though
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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby Rocket Axxonu » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:47 am

MinniePie wrote:After it was pointed out did i think the book seemed darker, Little arty was down right mean and hateful!Celsica you should read the next book, it's not as dark and quite humerus. i liked it

Oh yes, that is another aspect that you could say makes TTP 'dark' is how the bad guy (one of the bad guys) is actually Artemis's younger self. For one, I think it would be very hard to have to face up to what you have done and the kind of person you once were so directly.

Artemis tends to think pretty highly of himself in the earlier books, even if he does have pricks of conscience here and there, but in TTP, he may have been able to gain a perspective he never had before, on just how cruel he was and how he appears to other people.

In TAC,
Spoiler:
Artemis says that the pain he caused his mother was probably the catalyst for his Atlantis Complex, but I think having been able to see the kind of person he was back then could have also been a key contributing factor.

*going off topic again* But Holly's comment near the end of TTP, where she tells little Artemis, 'you don't know it yet, but you're a good person' was really interesting in light of Artemis's having blackmailed her earlier. Despite that, she seems at the end of TTP to have come to believed in Artemis's 'spark of decency' more than ever. She is suspicious of his motives at the beginning of TTP when Artemis contacts her about his mother dying, but
Spoiler:
in TAC, she defends him when Vinyaya tells Artemis that she begins to suspect him of one of his schemes.

TTP is 'dark' maybe, but it also has some gentle qualities to balance it out.

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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby Frondish17 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:23 am

I think that TTP was more character-based in a way than the others. While it still had an amazing plot - do any of Colfer's books have anything less than? - it was very focused on internal turmoil, both Artemis's guilt and inner change, and Holly's hormonal intrigue as well as an insight into her past (mother, claustrophobia, etc.)
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Re: Do you think TTP was darker then some of the other books

Postby Rocket Axxonu » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:39 am

Yeah, the focus on the characters and their internal struggles was what made me love this book the most. Your comment sort of reminds me of a thread I was just looking at earlier today in the debate section, about whether physical or emotional pain is harder to endure.

Somehow, I responded more emotionally to Artemis's struggle between 'being strong' and doing what's necessary to save his mother, and also not wanting to be cruel to a close friend than I had to TOD's scene where Holly and Artemis were about to be torn to shreds by Trolls (and that's not to downplay how gripping the Troll scene was, it was pretty scary).

Yes, learning about Holly's past with her mother was of particular interest to me too. For one, it gave us insight into how Holly grew into the strong, tough officer we see in the first few books (I think it's implied she had to toughen up in order to get along in the world without her mother). But there was another thing I picked up when I was rereading the book last week from the whole story of her mother, and I think that the racist theme in TTP is even stronger than in the other books.

Holly's mother died as a result of human actions, and she says that she wanted to hunt those humans down, that she hated them. Besides the generally anti-Mud Man sentiments propagated by fairy culture, this could also in part explain Holly's strong anti-Mud Men feelings we've seen in the previous books. There are other statements such as 'she realized she no longer thought of Artemis as a human, just as a friend' and the very first scene we see Holly in, where Foaly's having Holly listen to the sound file about the kraken, she's doing her usual thing of citing human shortcomings.

Although we never got to see that theme resolved, I guess that might make the book seem 'darker' too...


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