Global Warming

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levina
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Re: Global Warming

Postby levina » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:09 pm

I think that it's both. Global warming is a natural process that spans millions of years, but it's also being sped up by human influences.

I don't know how you can predict when the human race will "end." Personally I think it will be the next Ice Age, for obvious reasons ;)

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Re: Global Warming

Postby Multiverse » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:59 pm

levina wrote:I think that it's both. Global warming is a natural process that spans millions of years, but it's also being sped up by human influences.

I don't know how you can predict when the human race will "end." Personally I think it will be the next Ice Age, for obvious reasons ;)


That sounds very plausible, and since I haven´t had anything else to say than 'it exists, and it´s probably a bad thing for us' until now, I ma as well agree wholeheartedly. =)
The Ice Age thing sounds more like a guess to me, though, even if it´s a fairly qualified one. Technically, we´re still in the last Ice Age (because the definition of an Ice Age, I believe, is 'A point in time when both poles of the planet is covered in ice'). So to invert it, I believe humanity, or at least as we know it, will die out roughly at the end of this ice age.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby levina » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:50 pm

I meant the other meaning of Ice Age. As in, the last one was the time of the wooly mammoths. Don't know what the next "ice age'' will be like though.
Damn, there's so many different definitions of things..

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Re: Global Warming

Postby Mizora » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:08 pm

What really annoys me is how completely biased the school textbooks are in this matter. In the "Why is Antarctica so important" section, they use phrases like "virtually all the scientific community now accept that we are changing the earth's climate" - it actually said that exact phrase - and all the questions are like "What do you know about global warming and climate change?" "Why is it important to think about Antarctica if we're not planning to go there?"

I'm just glad that I can pick up on these subtle questions they're asking. At least I know what they're trying to do.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Tenzen12 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:18 am

Premise is that water from glacier would rice level of oceans and flood coasts areas.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby levina » Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:49 am

I've heard that cities on coastlines like Beijing and Vancouver will likely be flooded someday b/c of glaciers melting, sea level rising, etc.

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Re: Global Warming

Postby bluealice » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:22 am

I have a question to you guys.... What if it's winter in New York but the Global Warming is taking its effect... I just don't get it... is that possible?
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Re: Global Warming

Postby levina » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:52 am

Heh, you're absolutely right. Technically, global warming is an inaccurate term; the pros call it climate change these days, because not every country is becoming warmer. In some places the weather is just plain going haywire. That would explain why it's snowing in NY while it's clear and sunny up here in Canada. Last winter it was the middle of January and the weather was like autumn still.

(Climate change also accounts for the increased number of droughts in Africa - have you heard about the large Lake Chad drying up completely? In the States it's an increase in tornadoes, I believe, while in the tropics a few years ago they made the record for the number of hurricanes in a single season...)

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Re: Global Warming

Postby JetDragon1656 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:58 am

.....seriously...I just have one thing to say to that...look around you!!!
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Merv Simestra » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:00 am

I know what I'm about to say has been said, but I feel it needs to be said again.

Global warming isn't real. It's called climate change, and it's COMPLETELY natural. Records show that it was hotter back in King Arthur's day than it is now, and there wasn't any coal production or automobiles back then. So where were extra greenhouse gases back then? There weren't any. So climate change is not our fault. We have existed for thousands of years, and we haven't ruined the planet and we won't be able to.

And about the melting ice caps: if this is really happening (which I highly doubt it is) and the reports aren't being fudged, then what's bad about it? Whales will be able to go north for mating, the Himalayas will be more inhabitable, trees will grow better, and some deserts will get water if this is actually happening. We have survived for several thousands of years and so has nature. We will be able to survive this and so will nature if this is actually happening.

Returning to my last point, climate change is beyond our control. It always has been and it always will be out of our control. So there is no use worrying about it. We can't stop it from happening, we don't need to stop it from happening. Simple as that.

(Sorry about sounding like I don't care, but I don't agree with the concept of global warming at all. Considering it came from a person who just wants the government to control our energy usage as well as several other things. :()
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Athena32 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:10 pm

I fully believe in global warming. Did you know that 9 out of 10 scientists do? There is so much evidence, that I am a bit mystified at people's reactions. I have researched this topic, and I did a report for Health class called "the effects of global warming on health".
In a nutshell, the effects that I focused on are:
1) Extreme weather, and I'm not just talking a about droughts and heat waves. Extreme floods and storms too, because higher temperatures mean more evaporation, and thus, more water in the air. That will also effect food yields, as we people in OR/CA are noticing. We drove to LA this summer, and it was sad. The most fertile valley in the world with nothing growing because it was cheaper to have barren fields than buy water rights!

2) The effects on ecosystems. There ranges of many animals will more towards the poles, including malaria carrying mosquitoes. I remember showing people really creepy pictures of bugs. That got their attention pretty quickly.

3) Sea level rise. I have this foldout map of what the world would look like if all the ice melted, and it is scary! A small list of the places that are gone: New York, Florida (like, all of it), Seattle WA, a lot of cities in India, and that's just the tip of the (melted) iceburg (and all that I remember). If you're interested just search "If All the Ice Melted". It should be a national geographic link.

Now, I hate to pull the classic "we're all going to die" on you guys, but "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, remember to turn the lights off. And wear sweaters.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Athena32 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:49 pm

Merv Simestra wrote:
Global warming isn't real. It's called climate change, and it's COMPLETELY natural. Records show that it was hotter back in King Arthur's day than it is now, and there wasn't any coal production or automobiles back then. So where were extra greenhouse gases back then? There weren't any. So climate change is not our fault. We have existed for thousands of years, and we haven't ruined the planet and we won't be able to.

And about the melting ice caps: if this is really happening (which I highly doubt it is) and the reports aren't being fudged, then what's bad about it? Whales will be able to go north for mating, the Himalayas will be more inhabitable, trees will grow better, and some deserts will get water if this is actually happening.


While it is true that climate change as a concept has been happening for a while now, this time it's happening too fast for the earth to compensate.
Yes, the Himalayas will be more habitable, but a huge amount of land will disappear. Florida gone! The satellite images can illustrate this much better than I can, so I would suggest looking at "If All the Ice Melted", a Nat. Geo. link. Also, the change in global temp will have a huge effect on marine life. We already have spots along the Oregon coast called dead zones, where the ocean has absorbed so much co2 that no creatures can breath. There is no oxygen in the water.
Although at first climate change might not have a huge effect on the whales themselves, it most likely will have an effect on plankton, their food source. And an animal cannot survive if it's only food source is extinct.
It is true that regional air currents and weather patterns will change as a result of the warming, however, that is not always a good thing. If one place suddenly gets more rain, another place will get less rain. There is a fixed amount of water on the earth, so any benefits for certain places have inverse effects in others. Also, having a arid climate zone turn into a temperate climate zone is not good for several reasons. How will the animals and landscape adapt? The animals have special abilities that allow them to live in a certain climate. The plants are built to function on low water and high heat. Too much water would actually have a negative effect. The landscape would probably adjust faster than the flora and fauna, but it would still take many years. The area would be inhabitable because of the soil's inability to soak up water quickly. There would be a countless amount of flash floods.
I haven't heard the "trees will grow better" before, and I don't know much about it. Can you describe to me the backing behind that idea?

I'll be happy to answer any of your questions; I love a good debate! ;)
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Athena32 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:55 pm

bluealice wrote:I have a question to you guys.... What if it's winter in New York but the Global Warming is taking its effect... I just don't get it... is that possible?


It is possible, because climate change does not just mean that everything gets hotter. It changes regional climate patterns, meaning one place gets something another place was supposed to get. Or to put it differently, climate change means things become more extreme in both directions. Weather on steroids.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Merv Simestra » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:02 pm

First and foremost, please don't multi-post. I know it's tempting if you have a lot to say, but you can put everything into one post (just ask Rocket Axxonu). It's also against the rules. So please don't.

Second, your first response makes me suspicious. You only talked about the things you studied and looked into, not what you actually discovered. Your argument seemed disjointed because it took currently existing event and the fact that you have a map of the world if it flooded, and it didn't say particularly that these are the effects of global warming. I mean, there's been big bugs forever (just ask Hawaii or Florida), and droughts aren't uncommon. They're most often caused by air currents changing direction and not bringing needed rain clouds. And it's not as if southern California hasn't gotten rain. In fact, they've been flooded because the early summer dried the ground, and now the rain can't be absorbed.

Third, I had a post that disappeared (*sadface*) that had links to articles by scientists who at least provided evidence that the Earth warming is more due to outside affects than to humanity itself. Volcanoes put more CO2 into the air in one blast than our cars due in a lifetime, but we can't control that. The sun has been having a lot of solar flares, causing excess heat. Again, we can't control that. The fact is, Earth has always gone through warming and cooling phases, and I believe that this is one of those warming phases. Temperatures are always fluctuating, as evidenced by the Ice Age and temperatures during the early Middle Ages.

The fact that you say we have until 2020 until we've reached the point of no return is a little too sensationalist for me to believe. Particularly, since at our current rate of temperature increase, it would take about 1,000 years to get close to all the poles melting.

Please also keep in mind that's it been three years since this post, so I have learned new things and know more than I did when I was seventeen. I will briefly answer your points.
  • Yes, IF all the poles melt, a lot of land will disappear (granted the entire continent of Antarctica will be habitable, so there's that), but that's a pretty big if.
  • I might also ask how plankton would be affected by global warming (and not all whales eat plankton, such as orcas, dolphins, sperm whales, and porpoises).
  • You do realize that all animals have the ability to adapt to changes in their surroundings? I would also point out that if certain species do die out because of global warming, might it really be natural selection instead of humans that causes that?
  • When I referred to trees growing better I meant the fact that they feed off of CO2 and produce oxygen.

I'm a little confused by your response to bluealice. You say global warming is real, and then imply to her that climate change can mean change in both extremes (a fact I'm hesitant to believe as that hasn't happened yet). Are you saying that the world will die in ice and fire? I still feel you're giving a very doom-and-gloom picture if we humans don't change our ways, become hermits, and live without technology that produces CO2 in the next five years.

I too love a good debate, but most of your points seem a little disjointed and sensational to be facts. I apologize if you take offense, but that's the way they look to me.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Athena32 » Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:34 am

I'm not offended on the double post thing; thanks for calling me on it. (I'm still learning the ins and outs of this site)

Also, I don't quite understand what you meant by only mentioning what I looked into and not what I discovered. Could you clarify?

I probably shouldn't have mentioned the Nat. Geo. link as much as I did, because you're right, it isn't concrete evidence. I thought it would be an interesting graphic for people to look at. However, you said something earlier about scientists forging data, and I think that is highly unlikely. Even if someone had the motive to do so, hundreds of people all over the world are looking at this issue, and if it is completely made up, you'd think the majority of them would say something.

One of the hard things about arguing over this issue is that it can be really tempting to bring in current examples of possible phenomena. I'm pretty sure that this year is an El Niño year, so that might have an effect on what is happening in California. However, global temperatures have risen 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit (on average) around the world (I might be wrong on the exact number, but the gist is the same). That's too big to be a local trend. I haven't heard the solar flare hypothesis, but it doesn't make a ton of sense. Although I've read about the electromagnetic effect of a flare on the earth, I don't understand why that would translate to a rise in temp. (Does it release more UV radiation perhaps?). Also, you'd think that if solar flares were linked to the warming, there would be a trend in the data, or a dramatic change in temp before and after a flare. (I'd love to hear more about that idea)

About the volcanoes, that is true, but they also put sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere, which reflects some of the light back into space. We may not be able to control volcanoes, but we can control cars. I'm not quite sure how many cars are equal to one St. Helens size blast, but I have a feeling it is probably within the number of cars used around the world.

It was a bit sensationalist of me to do the whole "We're all going to die" thing, wasn't it. Not my best argument. :blush:

Although you may be right about our current growth rate, the carbon rise is not linear. Instead, the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere would rise exponentially, along with the number of people on earth.

As far as the plankton thing, I have no idea. It's been so long since I've studied marine biology. 2nd grade at least.

The animals adapting to their surroundings I disagree with, because it would be hard for generations to adapt that quickly. If the animal that another depends on for food dies out, would it be able to change food sources before it died?
You could call it natural selection, I suppose, but you could look at a lot of things that way. In WARP book one (the best example I can think of right now), was Riley at fault for holding the dagger that killed Orange's dad? Or was the guy who moved Riley's hand at fault? Most people would say the person who moved his hand, which, if you go back to the issue, would be the human race. (Riley would be the principal of natural selection.)

Trees do use CO2 in the process of photosynthesis, but they also need water and land to do that. If the soil is to hot to hold a reasonable amount of water, the tree is dead. If people are using the land for farming or building, the tree doesn't have that space. Another thing to consider is the detrimental effect of acid rain on the trees.

Sorry my response to BlueAlice was a bit confusing; I meant it to be the opposite. What I meant is that because of a rise in temp, more water will evaporate off of bodies of water, like the oceans. That will heighten the effects of weather patterns El Niño and La Niña, which are bad enough as it is. I'm not saying the world will die in ice and fire, I'm just implying that not only will heat inflicted natural disasters get worse, but natural disasters related to water (unlikely snow, but that's possible) like hurricanes and floods are likely to get worse as well.

Keep debating, this is fun!
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